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Post by brunohill on Feb 25, 2022 0:37:11 GMT 11
Is spending big money on a new pack for an old Leaf a bad idea? That's the question that's been on my mind lately. By the time I need it my car will be around 15 years old and close to 300,000km if my usage patterns continue. I guess if the car is still OK. I don't understand people saying it does not make financial sense (other than a car salesman), that you are better off spending $50,000 than $20,000. I guess you get Apple car play and over the air software updates (Russian virus) for the extra $30,000. I would have kept my Leaf if I knew there was a chance of getting something like this in Australia instead of buying a Kona EV. The Leaf is a much nicer car in my opinion. I took my 34 year old Subaru Brumby for a remote job I had to do last week because it was the only vehicle I could get hold of that would make it reliably. Last time I took a more modern turbo diesel and broke it. An electric vehicle should last even longer. Actually a Rivian and an old leaf is what I would really like.
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Post by rusdy on Feb 25, 2022 17:54:16 GMT 11
Is spending big money on a new pack for an old Leaf a bad idea? That's the question that's been on my mind lately. By the time I need it my car will be around 15 years old and close to 300,000km if my usage patterns continue. How much you're thinking about the 'big money'? If you can qualify the Nissan's Australia battery 'subsidy', which is the original canary (read: crap) battery, you're getting usable ~15kWh for the first 3 years for AUD10k, which translates to 60-ish cents per kWh. To date, I still haven't find any aftermarket solution (even serious DIYer) that can beat this (even with 2nd hand pack), for $/kWh. Also, I don't see any value installing bigger pack into an old leaf, as what's the point? One can't drive long distance with a Leaf (any model) due to battery heating issue for long distance. In short, for inner city driving, an old leaf still the best bang for your buck! I'm planning to keep mine to its death! I don't need pro pilot, heated seat, apple/orange play, refreshed look, big battery (well, I do, but I'm not willing to pay the price), etc etc. I just need reliable motor+battery on wheels to transport the family with fast charging network (which Australia not there yet...). Gosh, my utilitarian thinking shows...
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Post by EVangelist on Feb 28, 2022 23:05:48 GMT 11
Is spending big money on a new pack for an old Leaf a bad idea? That's the question that's been on my mind lately. By the time I need it my car will be around 15 years old and close to 300,000km if my usage patterns continue. Feng - if you plan to keep the car to the bitter end I think it’s better to pony up $10k for a new battery (whenever the time comes) than to incur way more than that in changeover costs to get a new EV. But it does depend on just how old the car is when you reach that point, its condition (apart from the battery) and what your longer term needs are. If you don’t think that time will come for another 5+ years, I would be more concerned that even if you wanted a new battery it would not be possible to get one from Nissan or even third-party. If you plan to sell it at some point, there’s no way getting a new battery would add $10k to the sales price in my view, so I would sell it as-is and get that new EV. As you know we got a new battery last year but that was because my wife needed the range for her commute. If it wasn’t for that we probably would have sweated it for another 2-3 years. After a year the new battery is still on 12 bars, so hopefully the car will be good for another 8 years or so. If we get 15 years out of if, I think that is OK for what was a very early adopter purchase.
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Post by coulomb on Mar 13, 2022 10:41:22 GMT 11
Also, I don't see any value installing bigger pack into an old leaf, as what's the point? One can't drive long distance with a Leaf (any model) due to battery heating issue for long distance. It's not that bad! The problem is the fast charging after driving a long time. With fast charging, the battery doesn't get a break from downhill stretches etc, just continual heating, and no air movement to cool the battery. As far as I know, just driving doesn't cause the battery to heat significantly. So no need to avoid a long range Leaf, unless you need to fast charge it more than once on a typical journey, and that's less likely with a long range model. But if you do a lot of long distance driving in the hotter parts of the country, then the Leaf without active cooling is definitely a poor choice. It's probably not a great choice for Queensland or NT, period, because of the faster degradation in the warmer climates. I won't be getting another EV without active cooling. [ Edit: added "on a typical journey". ]
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Post by Feng on Sept 9, 2022 12:49:45 GMT 11
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Post by coulomb on Sept 10, 2022 1:41:04 GMT 11
Wow, thanks. I had no idea that Nissan did any sort of manufacturing in Australia. What a concept: value add a little and export a casting instead of raw bauxite. It must be tricky using dodgy used cells in an industrial setting. Perhaps each ~400 V battery goes into a separate high voltage battery inverter that blends battery and grid power.
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Post by leighf on Nov 13, 2022 10:52:19 GMT 11
Hi All, long time between posts.
I've had my 2012 LEAF for 10 years now and drive it every day. It's now got 160,000 km on the clock and is down to 7 bars and has a realistic range of 70km which is OK for my daily commute but I always arrive home with "Low Battery Warning". I'm not in a position to buy a new EV so a replacement battery would be useful and a 40kWh would be desirable to give more range so I have less need of my Wife's (petrol) car for longer trips.
I don't have the facilities to do my own battery swap even after looking at many YouTube videos.
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Post by coulomb on Nov 14, 2022 11:10:24 GMT 11
I've never heard of them. They claim to be established in 2018, yet this web site isn't in archive.org. That's not necessarily bad, just a little fishy. Maybe they just worked by word of mouth for a few years. Sites can take years to work their way into archive.org. Maybe you can track down their RoboRobo ice cream truck mentioned in their "about us" page; surely there would be a mention of that on reputable web sites. A quick search revealed only this facebook page, which doesn't mean much: www.facebook.com/roborobo.icecream/
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Post by brunohill on Nov 14, 2022 21:30:59 GMT 11
Hi All, long time between posts.
I've had my 2012 LEAF for 10 years now and drive it every day. It's now got 160,000 km on the clock and is down to 7 bars and has a realistic range of 70km which is OK for my daily commute but I always arrive home with "Low Battery Warning". I'm not in a position to buy a new EV so a replacement battery would be useful and a 40kWh would be desirable to give more range so I have less need of my Wife's (petrol) car for longer trips.
I don't have the facilities to do my own battery swap even after looking at many YouTube videos.
These guys said they were looking at getting something made in China for them or may be able to source a 40 kWh battery kilowattcars.com.au/
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Post by Feng on Nov 18, 2022 10:36:50 GMT 11
They posted pictures of them taking a 82kWh Leaf on a trial run on the Leaf Owners Facebook page and everyone was curious about it. There were some photos of their work and the batteries didn't look like they were adequately secured. The hefty brackets on the sides of one of the banks were removed, for example. Maybe it's work in progress but I wouldn't want to be an early adopter and potential guinea pig.
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Post by leighf on Nov 19, 2022 9:33:46 GMT 11
Thanks for the extra info. I'll keep my eyes open.
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Post by datsunleaf on Apr 4, 2023 20:19:27 GMT 11
Hi Feng, long time no chat, I still have my original Leaf and hoping to keep it just hoping for company to offer increase range bayyery for our old Leaf like that company in NZ
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Post by Feng on Apr 4, 2023 23:16:38 GMT 11
Same here! Just passed 210,000km and aiming for 300,000km with my current battery before thinking of what to do next. Sinking tens of thousands of dollars on such a high mileage car still feels like a questionable idea.
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 7, 2023 22:58:34 GMT 11
Same here! Just passed 210,000km and aiming for 300,000km with my current battery before thinking of what to do next. Sinking tens of thousands of dollars on such a high mileage car still feels like a questionable idea. That’s very impressive Feng! The most I have done in any vehicle I have owned is 195,000 km and that took 19 years. How many bars do you have left? We have 94,000km on our Leaf, which is 8.5 years old.
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Post by duncan on Apr 8, 2023 9:42:51 GMT 11
Whoa, ozleaf is still here and talking to me!
Good to see you guys still running the cars. Aside from the battery, how has the rest of the car aged? I've got 2 cars with 400k+ on them (a patrol and a stagea) and they are both going pretty well, just need occasional mechanical maintenance like radiators, bushes etc
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Post by Feng on Apr 8, 2023 11:31:51 GMT 11
Hello Duncan, good to see you! I'm guessing it's mostly non-Facebook users here. I prefer it here because it's not a constant repeat of the same questions about charging or battery care like the Facebook page. The rest of my car is going solid, it just needs a good clean and maybe bumpers resprayed when I'm feeling rich.
Still based in Goulburn? Any plans to get another EV? My 1999 CR-V has done +460k and is becoming a constant yet manageable money pit.
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Post by Feng on Apr 8, 2023 11:39:57 GMT 11
How many bars do you have left? We have 94,000km on our Leaf, which is 8.5 years old. Currently at nine bars with the SOH at about 67.7%. My battery was replaced under warranty about five years ago at about 100,000km. I'm one of the lucky owners who got the most out of their Leaf.
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 8, 2023 12:13:28 GMT 11
Currently at nine bars with the SOH at about 67.7%. My battery was replaced under warranty about five years ago at about 100,000km. I'm one of the lucky owners who got the most out of their Leaf. Well done… we missed warranty battery replacement by 8 months. After lots of whinging from us, Nissan agreed to replace the battery at a “concessional” price of $10k plus labour. We went ahead and did that in March 2021, since it was way cheaper than getting a new car. We still have 12 bars after 2 years which is pretty good, having done ~25,000 km on the new battery. I suspect that our original battery was not well looked after between 2012 (when Nissan first imported the car) and late 2014 (when we actually bought it). Who knows whether they left it either fully charged or empty for extended periods of time while it was in storage, or what temperature conditions it was exposed to. At this rate, we should get ~15 years out of our LEAF which I would be OK with. Buying very early EV technology was always going to be a risk and we went into it with eyes wide open. I would expect that batteries in new EVs these days should last the life of the vehicle, i.e. ~20 years, without replacement. Out Tesla Model 3 will turn 4 this year, with only ~4% range loss so far. How good is that!
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Post by duncan on Apr 11, 2023 16:48:16 GMT 11
Good to hear from you guys. Yes we are still living near Goulburn and the moving the leaf on was a regretful decision, we seriously looked at battery replacement because I believe that EVs will stand up well over time compared to fuel cars due to their relative simplicity. With the gen 1 leaf however it would still require recharging to visit Sydney which is just not practical for regular use We do have a hybrid (Nissan Fuga) which does an excellent job for a big comfortable highway car at around 7l/100, plus a towing/hauling 4wd (Nissan Titan) which uses a whole town's worth of fuel every time we start it....horses for courses I guess, it is great for getting around dark and dodgy backroads safely. We will get back into an EV for sure one day, the Ariya looks tempting, especially in 4wd. It's great to see the initial battery life on the Model 3, that is good news for the industry and I hope it continues that way....but I just can't send Elon my hard earned to fuel his crazy global domination plotting
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Post by rusdy on May 9, 2023 21:02:23 GMT 11
... I prefer it here because it's not a constant repeat of the same questions about charging or battery care like the Facebook page... How do I charge my car again? Top balancing or bottom? Just joking!
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Post by brunohill on Jun 4, 2023 0:41:25 GMT 11
Face book post from Suziauto ...
Hi , just released and accepting orders now for 50Kw replacement pack for Nissan Leaf.. Suits ZE0/e-NV200. fits right in the original case, wiring loom made to suit original BMS extend your range to 340kms 2-year/100,000km state-of-health battery warranty, guarantees against battery capacity loss of less than 9 bars out of 12 bars (as shown on the vehicle capacity gauge) within the first 2 years or 100,000kms (whichever comes first). Installed price $18,000 plus GST including VCU to get correct range and vehicle operations .. Deposit Required. Email me Suziauto@live.com.au We have a network of installers in Australia and New Zealand ..
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Post by Feng on Jun 7, 2023 0:37:24 GMT 11
Call me tight but I'd be happy with a 24kWh battery for a more affordable price. Hard to justify that price on a decade old car. Better off selling a degraded Leaf + $18k and get a fancier used EV.
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Post by rusdy on Jun 9, 2023 9:26:13 GMT 11
Call me tight but I'd be happy with a 24kWh battery for a more affordable price. Hard to justify that price on a decade old car. Better off selling a degraded Leaf + $18k and get a fancier used EV. That's really good price though. Just for the size itself, it'll be an awesome value for money for a home battery (IF there's such thing an affordable ChaDeMo for V2G). So, big kudos to suzi auto to make this happen. Definitely for an extremely niche market for those who wants a circular economy to work (instead of throwing out perfectly working car, albeit old). I hope this option will be open for a while, I'm definitely considering it when my Nissan Australia replaced battery predicted to drop below 9 bar in 2025.
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Post by brunohill on Jun 10, 2023 1:06:18 GMT 11
The main reason I got rid of my LEAF and bought a Kona was because I didn't think something like this would be available in Australia. I thought about trying it myself but there would be too many dollars at risk if I failed to get it working properly. It cost me a lot more than $18K to trade my LEAF in on a second hand Kona.
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 15, 2023 22:42:54 GMT 11
And, like Feng, I hope that in 3-5 years, when we are actually in the market for a battery replacement, they have twice the range and cost $4,500 or better yet. $450. Well, here we are 9 years later and… well… that never happened!
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 15, 2023 22:53:58 GMT 11
OK... I didn’t want to jinx things by posting until it was all done... but... our LEAF now has a brand new battery in it! 2.5 years and 30,000 km later, and our battery still shows 12 bars! Very happy we forked over the cash to replace the battery, the original one must not have been looked after very well to have degraded so fast. I wonder if Nissan would even do it these days for a Gen 1 LEAF, or would it just be “talk to the hand” and here’s a brand new X-Trail you can buy 🙄
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Post by duncan on Sept 16, 2023 7:44:28 GMT 11
Hey guys, great to see this area still active, of course our gen1 leaf has long moved to a new owner as the range didn't work in our rural area.
But, I did want to say.....I think that an overlooked game changer from electric cars is the potential for second hand cars to be viable much longer than a current model ICE one. Current ICE cars are carefully designed to start failing from 3 years old (or whenever the end of warranty is) until they are too expensive to fix no later than 10 years old. In general, it is the ICE itself or related electrical systems/sensors that fails.
There is no reason an electric car has to go the same way, providing batteries either last longer or can be replaced at a reasonable price as the non-propulsion mechanical systems are straightforward to maintain over a much longer period (brakes, not that they get used, suspension bushes, shocks etc).
I think a gen 1 leaf with a good battery, now 11 years old, would be the bargain of the second hand market for easy, cheap, reliable motoring
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Post by brunohill on Sept 17, 2023 15:45:04 GMT 11
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 17, 2023 22:04:11 GMT 11
FYI, that company is in China and the price is USD. Presumably just the battery only. I watched a YouTube video once of a bloke in Germany doing his own 40 kWh battery upgrade to his ZE0 LEAF - he had a very impressive workshop with car lift etc and the swap procedure is definitely not straightforward and not for someone without the requisite knowledge and skills. Does anyone in Australia do LEAF battery replacements/upgrades? Not that we’re looking for one, just curious.
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Post by brunohill on Sept 19, 2023 0:50:34 GMT 11
Does anyone in Australia do LEAF battery replacements/upgrades? Not that we’re looking for one, just curious. Most EV service shops will now. Most state capitals have one or 2. You can order packs or modules from China and they will fit them or they rebuild packs themselves or are agents for people who do.
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