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Post by Feng on Apr 14, 2020 14:24:53 GMT 11
Wow that's loyal indeed! $10k doesn't sound subsidised, I thought that's the current going rate here. Have you got the new battery yet? There are reports of overseas 30kWh owners getting 40kWh batteries because Nissan discontinued 30kWh battery production. Be really curious to find out what happens to 24kWh owners.
So nice to get that range back isn't it? I found myself thinking about places I can go with that extra range.
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Post by rusdy on Apr 14, 2020 14:53:28 GMT 11
Wow that's loyal indeed! $10k doesn't sound subsidised, I thought that's the current going rate here. Have you got the new battery yet? There are reports of overseas 30kWh owners getting 40kWh batteries because Nissan discontinued 30kWh battery production. Be really curious to find out what happens to 24kWh owners. So nice to get that range back isn't it? I found myself thinking about places I can go with that extra range. Hi Feng, just ordered the battery couple of weeks ago, and delivery time quoted at around 6 months. So... no original range yet... 😭 Hence, the self-titled 'most loyal' Nissan customer ever! Or else, who on earth want to do that? It is indeed subsidised at roughly 50cents per kWh. For comparison, Tesla Powerwall just under 1 $/kWh. (Yes yes, Tesla batteries are way better). The dealer told me they have to fork out 15k (or maybe 25k, I can't remember) for me to order this battery. They (dealer) will get their money refunded by Nissan Australia once my old battery returned. That kinda makes sense, I.e. the quoted 33k battery to another Nissan leaf customer in the past (https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill). The moral of the story is, looks like there is NO incentive whatsoever for both dealer AND Nissan Australia for customer to replace their leaf's battery. I am yet to see anyone else can offer me my leaf's battery at around 50 - 60 cents per kWh (installed) in Australia. If there is, I already said "shut up and take my money" deal 😂. Upgrading to imports is certainly not a bad value. I've done my pros and cons and still found this path is still the cheapest. Oh, I'm a bit torn to mention this: The replacement battery warranty falls under warranty spare parts, I.e. 1 year or 20kkm. I'm loyal! (Or stupid, depends on one's POV) 😇
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Post by rusdy on Apr 14, 2020 15:07:04 GMT 11
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 14, 2020 18:19:36 GMT 11
Thanks for the info, Rusty.
I wonder why Nissan asks dealers to test batteries that are clearly out of warranty if they seem to reject replacement claims on the grounds that the battery is out of warranty? Seems like a waste of time to me. If it's out of warranty, then stiff cheddar? Fortunately, Australian Consumer Law sees things differently.
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Post by rusdy on Apr 14, 2020 20:55:11 GMT 11
I wonder why Nissan asks dealers to test batteries that are clearly out of warranty ...
My understanding, this is for the subsidised battery eligibility. Without confirmed 8 bar or less by the dealer's battery test, one won't be eligible for the 10k battery replacement pack.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 14, 2020 21:33:06 GMT 11
I wonder why Nissan asks dealers to test batteries that are clearly out of warranty ...
My understanding, this is for the subsidised battery eligibility. Without confirmed 8 bar or less by the dealer's battery test, one won't be eligible for the 10k battery replacement pack. You don't need a car in a workshop for two days to know that it's 8 bars or less. You can just look at the dash, can't you? :-)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 23:04:53 GMT 11
I too was “loyal” to Mitsubishi by purchasing and installing new genuine Mitsu 16kwh batt with LEV-50N cells for imiev $14k
Also loyal in purchasing new AC charger $5k.
Followed in footsteps of Phil Dufty whose SWMBO wanted to keep imiev over trading up to i3.
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Post by Feng on Apr 14, 2020 23:12:34 GMT 11
Didn't you end up owning an i3 for a while anyway? Still got the i-Miev? How many kms has it done? How's the capacity now?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:37:00 GMT 11
Yes owned i3 Rex first gen before it was written off in a crash. Battery being used in a solar powered dc charger trailer for targawest. Imiev sold Has done 227k kms PMC was 82.71%
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 17, 2020 19:27:00 GMT 11
Oh, I'm a bit torn to mention this: The replacement battery warranty falls under warranty spare parts, I.e. 1 year or 20kkm.
Quoting from "Guidance on the consumer guarantee":
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 18, 2020 17:25:54 GMT 11
The replacement battery warranty falls under warranty spare parts, I.e. 1 year or 20kkm. For reference, a post from March 2019 on MyNissanLeaf indicates that in the USA, a replacement battery "comes with the same capacity and bad cell warranties that it originally comes with. For a 24 kWh that is 5 years, 60k miles capacity and 8 years, 100k miles for defects".
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Post by stripey on Apr 19, 2020 10:56:44 GMT 11
I think I'll be looking at replacing the battery pack on my leaf next year, and I'd prefer to have it rebuilt by a third party so that we can put higher capacity cells in and repurpose the old cells for a home battery, but Nissan's $10k swap is my plan B.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 19, 2020 14:47:37 GMT 11
I think I'll be looking at replacing the battery pack on my leaf next year, and I'd prefer to have it rebuilt by a third party so that we can put higher capacity cells in and repurpose the old cells for a home battery, but Nissan's $10k swap is my plan B. Can you name such a third party? As far as I can tell, there is no one in Australia.
As for plan B, do you think a 12 month warranty on a $10,000 replacement battery is reasonable? (Noting that the same warranty in the USA is 5 years).
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Post by brunohill on May 22, 2020 1:58:53 GMT 11
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sundrive
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 2
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by sundrive on May 24, 2020 17:30:45 GMT 11
New Post to this forum, not very experienced when it comes to Forum etiquette so please be patient with any blunders.
I recently took advantage of Nissan Australia's subsidised Leaf battery replacement offer, 2012 model, first registered 2014, hit eight bars at 121,000km, battery took over five months to come in, just fitted last week at 127,000 km. Fully charged by dealer at level 2 charging and drove it home 40km from dealer on Friday. Full charge over night at home and first range testing trip was Saturday 23rd May. I must say, I am completely underwhelmed! I was anticipating that the "new" 24kWh replacement battery will bring us back to something like the original real world driving range of about 120km that the Leafs should have had. Here is what we got. Note that the energy meters in the car reset as a result of the battery change over, so, from new on Friday my driving was averaging 170Wh per kilometre, as a result of my usual habit of gentle throttle use. So, at 170Wh per kilometre at approx 91km we hit "Low Battery Alert". Now, I cannot find anywhere in the Nissan Leaf Owner manual stuff at what % SOC the LB alert kicks in, but if we do the maths 91 170Wh = 15.470 kWH out of a 24kWh pack is only 64%. So some questions if any members can help please; What is useable capacity of the nominal 24kWh pack? Does anyone know at what SOC% of nominal or useable capacity is "Low Battery Alert" supposed to activate? Will useable capacity increase some as the battery cycles up and down through its first few cycles? Should I be underwhelmed by this outcome, has anyone else had similar experience with a new battery replacement? Thank you Leaf owners.
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Post by EVangelist on May 24, 2020 21:28:46 GMT 11
I recently took advantage of Nissan Australia's subsidised Leaf battery replacement offer, 2012 model, first registered 2014, hit eight bars at 121,000km, battery took over five months to come in, just fitted last week at 127,000 km... Now, I cannot find anywhere in the Nissan Leaf Owner manual stuff at what % SOC the LB alert kicks in, but if we do the maths 91 170Wh = 15.470 kWH out of a 24kWh pack is only 64%. So some questions if any members can help please; What is useable capacity of the nominal 24kWh pack? Does anyone know at what SOC% of nominal or useable capacity is "Low Battery Alert" supposed to activate? Will useable capacity increase some as the battery cycles up and down through its first few cycles? Should I be underwhelmed by this outcome, has anyone else had similar experience with a new battery replacement? I would be underwhelmed... frankly it sounds like something is very wrong. I suppose see how it goes through a few more charge/discharge cycles, but if it is genuinely a new battery and not refurbished, a fully charged battery should show around 150 km range on the GOM and as you say 120 km or so real-world. "Low Battery" warning should only come on with approx less than 15 km range left, or 1 bar, and "Very Low Battery Warning" when the range display goes to "---".
How many bars capacity does the instrument panel show for the battery? 12?
With "normal" driving in the LEAF I get around 140 Wh/km.
Out of curiosity, how much did the new battery cost?
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Post by rusdy on May 25, 2020 15:37:14 GMT 11
..., but if we do the maths 91 170Wh = 15.470 kWH out of a 24kWh pack is only 64%. So some questions if any members can help please; What is useable capacity of the nominal 24kWh pack? Does anyone know at what SOC% of nominal or useable capacity is "Low Battery Alert" supposed to activate? ... If the definition of 'usable' is between fully charged to the first low battery warning, that will be roughly 17.6kWh (24 - 2.4 - 4): - 2.4kWh is simply can't be used as fully charged Nissan Leaf stops at 90% capacity (as per LeafSpy reading), or roughly 4.1V per cell;
- First 'Low Battery Warning' (or known as LBW in leaf forums) is at 4kWh;
Others have reported only positives (for example: this one). So, yours is strange indeed. Thanks for sharing, as I thought I'm the only crazy one to buy 10-grand worth of outdated battery technology . Something to be mindful when I eventually receive mine.
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Post by jacky on Jun 1, 2020 18:01:12 GMT 11
New Post to this forum, not very experienced when it comes to Forum etiquette so please be patient with any blunders. I recently took advantage of Nissan Australia's subsidised Leaf battery replacement offer, 2012 model, first registered 2014, hit eight bars at 121,000km, battery took over five months to come in, just fitted last week at 127,000 km. Fully charged by dealer at level 2 charging and drove it home 40km from dealer on Friday. Full charge over night at home and first range testing trip was Saturday 23rd May. I must say, I am completely underwhelmed! I was anticipating that the "new" 24kWh replacement battery will bring us back to something like the original real world driving range of about 120km that the Leafs should have had. Here is what we got. Note that the energy meters in the car reset as a result of the battery change over, so, from new on Friday my driving was averaging 170Wh per kilometre, as a result of my usual habit of gentle throttle use. So, at 170Wh per kilometre at approx 91km we hit "Low Battery Alert". Now, I cannot find anywhere in the Nissan Leaf Owner manual stuff at what % SOC the LB alert kicks in, but if we do the maths 91 170Wh = 15.470 kWH out of a 24kWh pack is only 64%. So some questions if any members can help please; What is useable capacity of the nominal 24kWh pack? Does anyone know at what SOC% of nominal or useable capacity is "Low Battery Alert" supposed to activate? Will useable capacity increase some as the battery cycles up and down through its first few cycles? Should I be underwhelmed by this outcome, has anyone else had similar experience with a new battery replacement? Thank you Leaf owners. Have you checked the battery status with LEAF Spy? What's the SOH, etc on LEAF Spy? My battery was replaced under warranty and the range on the GoM gone back to 160-170 km at full charge (from my memory) right after the replacement.
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foggy
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 11
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Post by foggy on Jun 1, 2020 18:44:59 GMT 11
After approximately 6 months of trying to talk with Nissan Australia in good faith they have stopped talking. Although as i said , they have stopped replying to my email, (except to say they have received and read them),i am guessing that the test they did showing that if it was an American Vehicle, they would have to give me a NEW (not rebuilt) Battery has something to do with it.
Also, the stuff Genevieve from NISSAN Australia told me about Nissan Not abandoning the Leaf has been contradicted twice by public statements from Nissan Europe, and Nissan HQ. (Transport Evolved) so that has introduced an awkward component where no new ones were necessary or desired.
Any who know me, including about 7 from various Nissan departments and roles, will know how conflicted i was to submit a complaint to the Australian Consumer and Competition Commision today . Report No, 299225.
I have claimed as the Americans did, that Nissan sold a car about 8 years ago in this country after lying about its RANGE, its environmental qualifications, Its battery life expectations. I also told of the fact that this had been proved in America and that if these SAME cars with the very SAME issues were there, they would give us ALL NEW current chemistry packs with warranties (fitted).
Now i know this sounds like the only thing for the ACCC to consider is weather Australians are as entitled as Americans to consumer protection, but i think you all know the answer to that.
Not withstanding< ,,, I invite you ALL to submit like complaints to them and give my number report 299225 as an amplification/duplication of the same issue. If they are going to ignore us, lets at least tell them how many they are ignoring. i am michael.
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Post by alison on Jun 2, 2020 16:07:13 GMT 11
After much hassle, I'm finally happy we are approved today for my battery replacement under warranty. Could take 3-6 months to arrive, and I'm now worried that it may end up being some sort of refurbished part rather than new.
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Post by jeffthewalker on Jun 3, 2020 9:15:53 GMT 11
After much hassle, I'm finally happy we are approved today for my battery replacement under warranty. Could take 3-6 months to arrive, and I'm now worried that it may end up being some sort of refurbished part rather than new. Mine was done late last year and I am more than happy with the numbers. LEAFspy reports that the battery is better than the original ever was when I bought it new in Sept 2015.
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foggy
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 11
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Post by foggy on Jun 3, 2020 17:29:56 GMT 11
Less than twelve hours after my post above 1744 Jun 1, Genevieve from NISSAN happened to reply to me? What terrible timing, i had waited 2 months and 4 mails before posting.
Nissan Australia confirms that they consider it normal that a fifty six thousand dollar car sold 7 and a half years ago, cannot be driven more than 35 kilometres from its garage. That at 80 kph or less in ECO and with the airconditioning off. They also confirm in writing that they consider themselves to be authorised to operate this way by Australian Consumer Law.
I again entreat all leaf owners to file a report with the ACCC if you do not hold this view. Nissan have said they "value" the loyalty leaf owners have shown them, but this reality is manifested in NO way different than if they couldn`t care less. I care about the resale value and reputation of the Nissan Leaf and say that it is destroyed by what Nissan say is NORMAL and acceptable.ACCC report no.299225
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Post by rusdy on Jun 6, 2020 16:46:12 GMT 11
... and say that it is destroyed by what Nissan say is NORMAL and acceptable.ACCC report no.299225 It is indeed disappointing. My take on this: the early adopters of Nissan leaf in Australia are considered 'collateral damage' by Nissan Australia. Too few of them to be safely ignored, and consumer memory is short enough once they roll out 'future' product.
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Post by EVangelist on Jun 25, 2020 20:15:09 GMT 11
Well, we’ve just lost bar #4, 5 years and 8 months after purchase. I will be asking Nissan for a warranty replacement, quoting the relevant section from Australian Consumer Law that says a manufacturer just can’t wash their hands of something simply because their warranty ran out, there are other relevant factors which I think are applicable in this case. Let’s see what happens.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Jun 25, 2020 22:34:12 GMT 11
Well, we’ve just lost bar #4, 5 years and 8 months after purchase. I will be asking Nissan for a warranty replacement, quoting the relevant section from Australian Consumer Law that says a manufacturer just can’t wash their hands of something simply because their warranty ran out, there are other relevant factors which I think are applicable in this case. Let’s see what happens. Good luck and please keep us posted.
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Post by stripey on Jun 26, 2020 18:59:42 GMT 11
I think I'll be looking at replacing the battery pack on my leaf next year, and I'd prefer to have it rebuilt by a third party so that we can put higher capacity cells in and repurpose the old cells for a home battery, but Nissan's $10k swap is my plan B. Can you name such a third party? As far as I can tell, there is no one in Australia.
As for plan B, do you think a 12 month warranty on a $10,000 replacement battery is reasonable? (Noting that the same warranty in the USA is 5 years).
I've spoken with a local AEVA member who is familiar with EV conversions about repacking the exisiting pack with fresh cells. As long as you don't try and install a massive amount of extra capacity, the existing BMS should be able to manage without much effort as far as I'm aware? You only start getting into trouble when you start trying to put a different BMS in, having to install canbus bridges, reprograming the serialof the pack that the car is expecting etc. I don't think a 12 month warranty is reasonable. I would say 8 years or around 160,000km (20,000kms a year on average over 8 years, and 8 years is now the defacto industry standard warranty lifetime for battery/drivetrain) to 8 bars again would be what I'd expect under Australian Consumer Law.
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Post by stripey on Jun 26, 2020 19:31:40 GMT 11
New Post to this forum, not very experienced when it comes to Forum etiquette so please be patient with any blunders. I recently took advantage of Nissan Australia's subsidised Leaf battery replacement offer, 2012 model, first registered 2014, hit eight bars at 121,000km, battery took over five months to come in, just fitted last week at 127,000 km. Fully charged by dealer at level 2 charging and drove it home 40km from dealer on Friday. Full charge over night at home and first range testing trip was Saturday 23rd May. I must say, I am completely underwhelmed! I was anticipating that the "new" 24kWh replacement battery will bring us back to something like the original real world driving range of about 120km that the Leafs should have had. Here is what we got. Note that the energy meters in the car reset as a result of the battery change over, so, from new on Friday my driving was averaging 170Wh per kilometre, as a result of my usual habit of gentle throttle use. So, at 170Wh per kilometre at approx 91km we hit "Low Battery Alert". Now, I cannot find anywhere in the Nissan Leaf Owner manual stuff at what % SOC the LB alert kicks in, but if we do the maths 91 170Wh = 15.470 kWH out of a 24kWh pack is only 64%. So some questions if any members can help please; What is useable capacity of the nominal 24kWh pack? Does anyone know at what SOC% of nominal or useable capacity is "Low Battery Alert" supposed to activate? Will useable capacity increase some as the battery cycles up and down through its first few cycles? Should I be underwhelmed by this outcome, has anyone else had similar experience with a new battery replacement? Thank you Leaf owners. I plugged my '12 9 bar Leaf into a Chademo fast charger immediately after getting low battery warning while pulling into the carpark the other week and the fast charger said it was on 27% SOC. I've also checked the SOC with Leafspy after letting the Leaf fully charge and it stopped at 92% SOC. I'm not sure if the ~21kwh usable battery out of a new 24kwh pack counts the only charging to about 90% SOC, but I'll assume it does as that mostly lines up. If low battery does trigger at around 27%, that's close to 6.5kwh remaining. If a "full" battery is ~90% charged and 21kwh, minus 6.5kwh remaining at low battery warning, that's 14.5kwh of energy between full and low battery warning, which you've beaten. I don't believe that the low battery warnings are triggered directly from a SOC percentage, more the voltage of the weakest cell, so there's a bit of a range depending on the weakest cell, temp etc I think, but 15.5kwh used from "full" to the first low battery warning seems about right.
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Post by brunohill on Jun 26, 2020 22:42:36 GMT 11
The low battery warning is activated by voltage ( at about 3.7 volts at cell level ). If you are loading the battery heavily (planting the foot) it could hit this voltage and then possibly recover. If you repack the the battery with fresh cells and keep the original BMS this problem will be worse as other chemistry lithium batteries have even more of their capacity below this voltage than the LiMnO batteries used in the original LEAF packs.
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Post by stripey on Jun 28, 2020 19:01:11 GMT 11
Yeah, premature turtle from low voltage is a concern I've heard about with repacking the pack. Something to keep in mind when picking the new cells to try and keep their discharge profile as similar to the original as possible.
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Post by brunohill on Oct 15, 2020 23:37:15 GMT 11
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