jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Feb 28, 2021 11:45:44 GMT 11
The latest update on my pack replacement is... there is no update. They have no idea when it will be shipped from Japan, or if it is already on a ship, when it will arrive... but have said they will try to find this out That's a start EVangelist, hopefully your pack replacement comes through eventually. Our story has ended differently. We decided we'd had enough.
The update on our Nissan Leaf saga re battery, modules, and Nissan AU as follows: (If you want to skip to the end, the upshot is we traded in our Leaf on another brand EV). As per the information given us by the state Nissan rep last year in November, we approached the local dealer to swap out the module in our Leaf (module #47). The dealership were great, made the appointment, we got the car to them, only to discover that the Nissan state office had told them they weren't certified to do that work, and it would require significant investment and approximately 12 months (COVID, training for this is not local etc) before they would receive the certification. But - they wanted to help, so they were willing to arrange the swap out through the ONLY local dealer licensed in the state to do this work, and would get back to us with pricing. We had a collective WTF moment when they rang back. 1) $11K for the other dealership just to look at the car 2) $30K to replace the battery, if they decided they would take it on. We hummed and hahhed about ringing back the state Nissan office and complaining - monopoly market ie one dealer, lack of support etc etc. We thought about ringing around the country to see if we could find something more reasonable (as well as shipping to NZ to the guys who do module swap for $3K). Then the battery SOH dropped another 1% and another 2 modules blue-lined (although all 12 bars are still visible). We thought about taking the battery out and hooking it up to our off-grid, but we were still going to be up for $30K for another new battery unless we shipped the vehicle somewhere else to do the work (if they would do it for a direct import). In the end we were so put off with Nissan and the whole shebang that we decided to leave the brand altogether.
The one positive was EV Australia sending through the SD card to swap out the instrument panel from Jap to English, went smoothly.
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Post by alison on Feb 28, 2021 12:05:07 GMT 11
The latest update on my pack replacement is... there is no update. They have no idea when it will be shipped from Japan, or if it is already on a ship, when it will arrive... but have said they will try to find this out 9 months tomorrow since mine was approved for warranty replacement... no contact from Nissan, got a similar answer to yours last time I wasted my time calling them for an update.
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Post by tomkauf on Feb 28, 2021 14:23:05 GMT 11
Sorry to hear it has ended like this Jag. But I totally understand. I would've done the same. It's a shame Nissan make it impossible to keep these cars running. Until the aftermarket becomes an option in Australia, Leafs won't be worthwhile repairing in Aus. Our entire 30kWh Leaf was about $24k to import. So no-one in their right mind would spend $30k to repair a used Leaf. Either trade it in like you did, or recycle the parts and put that money towards a different vehicle.
I'm glad you went with another EV. It's a wise move giving money to companies who support their customers.
Good luck
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Post by alison on Mar 2, 2021 16:07:56 GMT 11
The latest update on my pack replacement is... there is no update. They have no idea when it will be shipped from Japan, or if it is already on a ship, when it will arrive... but have said they will try to find this out 9 months tomorrow since mine was approved for warranty replacement... no contact from Nissan, got a similar answer to yours last time I wasted my time calling them for an update. Well well, rang them today to chase them up and apparently our battery is there ready to install. No, they didn't ring me. No they couldn't say how long it had been sitting there...
Anyway, booked for next week - they need it for three days and I'll get them to do a service while they have it, as it will hopefully be the last time the car ever visits a Nissan dealership.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 3, 2021 21:12:54 GMT 11
Well well, rang them today to chase them up and apparently our battery is there ready to install. No, they didn't ring me. No they couldn't say how long it had been sitting there... Anyway, booked for next week - they need it for three days and I'll get them to do a service while they have it, as it will hopefully be the last time the car ever visits a Nissan dealership That is really great news, so happy for you! Pretty bad that they never rang you up, that’s very poor service. Fingers crossed we hear about ours soon... probably expecting too much to think that it came on the same boat. As to the hope it will be the “last time the car ever visits a Nissan dealership” I hear where you’re coming from Will you be selling it once the new battery is in? It doesn’t make sense for us to do that, given we had to pay $10k for our battery.
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Post by alison on Mar 4, 2021 9:37:14 GMT 11
As to the hope it will be the “last time the car ever visits a Nissan dealership” I hear where you’re coming from Will you be selling it once the new battery is in? It doesn’t make sense for us to do that, given we had to pay $10k for our battery. Given the kids can't be P-platers on the Tesla (even the slowest Tesla ever made is deemed too powerful by NSW RMS. Doesn't matter that it's the safest vehicle ever tested...), we are planning to keep the LEAF for the kids to learn to drive on and then run around in.
We'll leave it semi-permanently set on 80% charge limit and hopefully the battery lasts for another 5+ years. It would great if a 3rd-party alternative exists by the time we might want another battery in 5-10 years so that we could fit a larger pack instead, but who knows.
Other than standard rural road wear and tear the rest of the car is still perfect after 5 years and nearly 100,000kms so I'd love to keep it until it's no longer roadworthy.
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Post by rusdy on Mar 8, 2021 18:04:33 GMT 11
...We'll leave it semi-permanently set on 80% charge limit and hopefully the battery lasts for another 5+ years....
Are you leaving this 80% charged for long term storage? If yes, I highly recommend store the Leaf somewhere Low Battery Warning. Ensure to check once in a while (let say 2 weeks) to ensure it's still somewhere there (should be). Definitely not recommend to store beyond 50% charged for long term storage. The lower the better. There are lots of white paper floating out there that basically says long term storage performance pretty much improves as you go lower (not lower than 5% though). As we can't really control the temperature that much... Example from this one: At LBW, it's roughly 20% if you just recently replace the battery.
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Post by alison on Mar 8, 2021 19:24:02 GMT 11
...We'll leave it semi-permanently set on 80% charge limit and hopefully the battery lasts for another 5+ years....
Are you leaving this 80% charged for long term storage? Thanks but no, car will still be in regular use.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 9, 2021 18:39:17 GMT 11
Are you leaving this 80% charged for long term storage? If yes, I highly recommend store the Leaf somewhere Low Battery Warning. Ensure to check once in a while (let say 2 weeks) to ensure it's still somewhere there (should be). Definitely not recommend to store beyond 50% charged for long term storage. The lower the better. There are lots of white paper floating out there that basically says long term storage performance pretty much improves as you go lower (not lower than 5% though). As we can't really control the temperature that much... Hmm... I would not do that. Do you have any references to these white papers? If I ever wanted to attempt long-term storage, I would have the initial charge state at about 50%. Suggest you read this post: Deep Storage. Member stewartm kept his LEAF in France in storage for 15 months with original charge at 75% and it lost only 1 bar over that time. I’ve had Li-Ion batteries die previously because they were kept for more than a year at a low charge state - would simply no longer retain their charge for any length of time. Also my Powerwall Gateway died about 6 months ago and my PW2 was on 10% charge state for nearly 2 weeks before the GW was repaired under warranty. I rang Tesla and because I was concerned if it remained that low for an extended period of time it might not be good for the cells and they said while a few weeks or even months was fine, more than 6 months at a low charge state would not be good.
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Post by rusdy on Mar 10, 2021 10:57:04 GMT 11
Hmm... I would not do that. Do you have any references to these white papers? Hi EVangelist , No one can explain lithium batteries better than Prof. Jeff Dahn himself. I know 'You-Tube' has a bad wrap for reliable info, but I still haven't found anything more detailed and better than this one to date: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qi03QawZEkIn the presentation above, prof. Jeff Dahn mentioned a lithium cell that he stored in the fridge for couple of years (at 20%SoC) and maintained its life without degradation. I'll update you the which minute he said that (being an hour lecture! ). Also, the link I gave previously ( click this one) had the typical graph for lithium battery degradation vs SoC and temperature (the image didn't link well unfortunately). Retrying the image snapshot: Now, the guideline to start at '50% SoC', etc etc, this is due to the phantom loading of the car while parked long term. Hence, I recommend to top up occasionally (maybe once a fortnight), but still around LBW. My own leaf was out of action for 3 months while low charge, but the difference back then was the HV battery was disconnected for 3 months (while being repaired due to rear-ended). During that 3 months (while HV battery disconnected), there was no noticeable self-discharge (which being expected from lithium batteries). I do understand there are lots of misleading 'guidelines' out there about the Leaf. Hence, I'm trying to dispel lots of myths that are floating out there, by linking to existing white papers. This is so that more EV drivers treat their Lithium batteries correctly, and enjoy better long term reliability from our (already crappy) leaf batteries . Regarding PW2 concern, this is a different issue. This is due to PW2 has high self-load to maintain its internal electronics. Hence, if your PW2 has gateway issues that prohibits charging the batteries, then the self-discharge (due to self electronic consumption), will be bad. As the PW2 is active at all times (except during prior 'commissioned' for use). Another myth that I would like to dispel these days is topping up to 100% occasionally for battery balancing. This is highly unnecessary and damaging to lithium batteries (depending how often is the 'occasional'). But hey, this is another topic.
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Post by alison on Mar 14, 2021 8:44:55 GMT 11
Collected the car with new battery yesterday, right on 100,000kms.
Was at 100% SoH when parked at Suttons, now settled to 94.06% SoH at 96.1% SoC after an AC charge at home. 264 GIDs, 59.30Ah
It's just missing that new car smell! (ok and a bit of dent removal and paint touch-up)
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Post by Feng on Mar 14, 2021 8:59:06 GMT 11
Congratulations! Finally! I miss that new battery feeling. Do you you plan to keep the car or sell it while it has better value?
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Post by alison on Mar 14, 2021 9:05:12 GMT 11
Congratulations! Finally! I miss that new battery feeling. Do you you plan to keep the car or sell it while it has better value? Well, since it carts dogs better than the Model 3, and we can't order a Y yet, we'll keep it so the kids can use it to learn to drive on. It's still a brilliant run-around car.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 16, 2021 20:56:30 GMT 11
Collected the car with new battery yesterday, right on 100,000kms. Was at 100% SoH when parked at Suttons, now settled to 94.06% SoH at 96.1% SoC after an AC charge at home. 264 GIDs, 59.30Ah It's just missing that new car smell! (ok and a bit of dent removal and paint touch-up) That’s fantastic! What does the GOM say when fully charged? How long did they keep the car for? We are soooo looking forward to having a full capacity battery back in our LEAF. It is really crimping our use of the car at the moment. Not quite having to hypermile with it but close.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 26, 2021 18:02:35 GMT 11
OK... I didn’t want to jinx things by posting until it was all done... but... our LEAF now has a brand new battery in it! After Alison mentioned that she only found out there was a battery waiting to be installed in her car after ringing the dealer up, I though I would do the same. And gob-smackingly, they came back and said “yes, there’s a battery here for you, would you like to bring the car in next week”? It would have been nice for them to ring us up when the battery arrived... Anyway, we booked the car in, it went in on Monday and I picked it up first this morning. And wow! How about this for GOM envy: This made me wonder how degraded the original battery was when we first bought the car... when it was ‘brand new’ I think the fully charged range on ECO was 150-160 km, even with 12 bars of capacity showing. Honestly, it feels like a new car. Hopefully the battery they put in has the slightly improved chemistry in it, and given it is now nearly 6.5 years since we first bought the car, if we get another 8-10 years out of this I’ll be happy. Woo hoo!!!
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Post by dac1811 on Mar 30, 2021 22:44:09 GMT 11
Hi Evangelist, where did you get yours done ? I'm also waiting for a battery since Nov last year and checked last week - still no luck. Hopefully soon.....
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 1, 2021 20:16:14 GMT 11
Hi Evangelist, where did you get yours done ? I'm also waiting for a battery since Nov last year and checked last week - still no luck. Hopefully soon..... Same place as Alison - Suttons in Zetland/Rosebery. I believe they are the only “heavy” Leaf service centre in NSW.
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Post by dac1811 on Apr 1, 2021 22:18:37 GMT 11
Thanks, same place for me. At least they will have had plenty of practice.
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Post by coulomb on May 15, 2021 12:46:23 GMT 11
I've lost my first bar on the second battery. Sadly, I wasn't watching for it, so it could have been months ago, but I suspect it was quite recently. So my first bar lasted only 24 months.
SOH 84.59%, 55.49 Ah. Hx 68.45% (it was never high). 93 000 km. [ Edit: battery replaced just before ~79 000 km. Usage was fairly low last year, due to COVID-19. ]
I had assumed that they put the freshest, latest chemistry cells into our old cases, but now I think that's not the case. They just need to honour the letter of the original promise: at least 8 bars after 5 years. So my guess is that they have a bunch of old chemistry cells in storage, maybe in Japan where it's naturally cool, but not in refrigeration as I would hope.
Edit 2: But I do believe that the replacement cells are at least a little better than the originals. I base this on my notes on Les Smith's battery; some from this forum, some from personal conversation. His first battery was down to 10 bars at 60 000 km, yet his replacement battery was still showing 11 bars at 69 000 km (on the second battery, as of mid January 2020).
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Post by rusdy on May 16, 2021 0:22:02 GMT 11
...But I do believe that the replacement cells are at least a little better than the originals. . Thanks for update coulomb! Mine is worse (the degradation rate) than the first battery. I'm hoping to get the bar down before my 12-month warranty lapse (I paid for it). My new battery in purple line below, compared to first one :
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Post by coulomb on May 17, 2021 23:30:12 GMT 11
Mine is worse (the degradation rate) than the first battery. I think it's too early to tell. The initial drop to ~96% SOH is presumably the BMS catching up with the fact that the battery sat in a warehouse and/or on a ship for a few months. Remember too that initial degradation is supposed to be higher than that of later years, and that most of our original batteries were abused in car lots or warehouses for a year or three before anyone owned them.
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Post by EVangelist on May 18, 2021 16:05:12 GMT 11
I think it's too early to tell. The initial drop to ~96% SOH is presumably the BMS catching up with the fact that the battery sat in a warehouse and/or on a ship for a few months. Remember too that initial degradation is supposed to be higher than that of later years, and that most of our original batteries were abused in car lots or warehouses for a year or three before anyone owned them. Yeah, our battery was already 2 years old when we first bought our Leaf. Who knows how well it was looked after during that time. At least this time we’ve had use of the battery from Day 1 newness, so I’m much more relaxed.
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Post by rusdy on May 18, 2021 17:43:51 GMT 11
Yeah, our battery was already 2 years old when we first bought our Leaf. Who knows how well it was looked after during that time. At least this time we’ve had use of the battery from Day 1 newness, so I’m much more relaxed. Hi EVangelist , do you have the most recent SoH and Hx reading from leafspy on your battery? I'm curious how's everybody's gen-1 leaf replaced battery going. So far, coulomb 's one and another guy in facebook (he uploaded the leafspy reading to sell his), which was replaced January 2020 showing at 87% SoC. This means, from extremely limited samples, I got an average of 1-bar missing after 2 years (looks like distance is much less relevant). From my own, the degradation rate is 1-year to miss 1-bar (although still too early to tell, the 7-month trend to date has not slow down). I know that Feng 's one and les' one has fared much, much better.
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Post by EVangelist on May 18, 2021 21:54:53 GMT 11
Hi EVangelist , do you have the most recent SoH and Hx reading from leafspy on your battery? I'm curious how's everybody's gen-1 leaf replaced battery going. So far, coulomb 's one and another guy in facebook (he uploaded the leafspy reading to sell his), which was replaced January 2020 showing at 87% SoC. This means, from extremely limited samples, I got an average of 1-bar missing after 2 years (looks like distance is much less relevant). From my own, the degradation rate is 1-year to miss 1-bar (although still too early to tell, the 7-month trend to date has not slow down). I know that Feng 's one and les' one has fared much, much better. No, I don’t have LEAFSpy so I don’t have those numbers, sorry. Now that we have a new battery, we limit charging to 80% to maximise longevity. We were charging it to 100% for the final 2 years of the previous battery because my wife has a long commute.
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Post by moyanous on Nov 5, 2021 20:39:00 GMT 11
Rang up Nissan last week and asked for the part number of a new replacement battery pack. Was hoping that they would supply a lizard pack but no luck. Still the good old dodgy canary chemistry.
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Post by Feng on Dec 23, 2021 23:13:57 GMT 11
youtu.be/2eLe92OAeoUI hope this happens and will start saving in the meantime. A ~500km range actively cooled aftermarket battery for my first gen Leaf would be amazing!
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Post by EVangelist on Dec 24, 2021 11:16:14 GMT 11
youtu.be/2eLe92OAeoUI hope this happens and will start saving in the meantime. A ~500km range actively cooled aftermarket battery for my first gen Leaf will be amazing! Now THAT is cool. Maybe after our second LEAF battery dies in 2030 we’d have this done with LFP replacement instead of junking the car Those Kiwis are really innovative!
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Post by iamlsd on Dec 30, 2021 15:14:58 GMT 11
And not just the Kiwis - youtu.be/FVxEOETTWnQ. Fingers crossed we get some viable options soon in Aus. I'm down to 8 bars on our original battery so still happy and the car is meeting our needs as a city (Adelaide) run about with 100kms range.
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Post by brunohill on Dec 30, 2021 22:38:52 GMT 11
And not just the Kiwis - youtu.be/FVxEOETTWnQ. Fingers crossed we get some viable options soon in Aus. I'm down to 8 bars on our original battery so still happy and the car is meeting our needs as a city (Adelaide) run about with 100kms range. Good luck with getting a cheap 2nd hand 40 kWh battery and getting it shipped to Australia to do this. A fellow in Perth has done it, but I don't know how he got the battery. I hope the Kiwis are successful with this, they have been working on this for a long time to get it 100 % reliable. It would be such a shame if cheap Chinese EVs killed it. The modules in these Kiwi LEAF batteries (specially with a preprogramed BMS) could make EV conversions of old ICE cars a lot easier and more reliable with a world wide market available.
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Post by Feng on Feb 24, 2022 17:59:24 GMT 11
Is spending big money on a new pack for an old Leaf a bad idea? That's the question that's been on my mind lately. By the time I need it my car will be around 15 years old and close to 300,000km if my usage patterns continue.
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