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Post by brunohill on Apr 9, 2019 20:17:09 GMT 11
Just another data point: Took my car in for service (Hobart Nissan), asked about the battery health report (because it's always just a list of "5 star" results with no more detail). I didn't mention battery replacement, but the service manager volunteered the info that they supply & install replacement batteries for $9k + 5 hours labour. They'll only do it for cars with 8 bars or less. No mention of warranty replacement (but that could be due to the age of my car). I bought it second hand - I'm the third owner - so I'm not sure when it was first sold or when the warranty is supposed to start. I only know it's August 2012 manufactured. It would be nice to have something official from Nissan Australia. I don't know if I need to source alternative cells to rebuild my pack, if it plausible to get Nissan to replace it, or plan on stripping the LEAF for parts and make an electric Subaru Brumby (that would really give some flexible battery options).
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Post by jacky on Apr 11, 2019 7:20:20 GMT 11
I was trying to hold up my post on the battery replacement until I have the definite answer about my battery warranty claim.
But I think it is worth to share this info now.
My LEAF was sent to a dealer for battery test for a week instead of 1-2 days. Nissan found there is a fault in the Vehicle Control Unit (VCU) related to the TCU.
Even though the fault is not related to the battery, Nissan Australia insisted the fault needs to be fixed before they can process my warranty claim.
"Fortunately", Nissan Australia will cover 50% of the replacement (that is a special approval on my case) but I still need to pay $960. If they didn't cover the cost of VCU replacement, I have to pay almost $2000.
I agreed on that and they ordered the VCU which is in back order (as expected).
I am still waiting for the VCU to be fixed before I can have the outcome of my battery warranty claim. The mechanic told me the battery should be replaced under warranty according to his experience but it is Nissan Australia to make that decision.
For those who is considering the $9k + labour battery replacement, you should check whether they will still replace the battery if there are unrelated faults in the LEAF like the VCU.
If they take the rule like Nissan on battery replacement under the warranty, it will be $11k (i.e., $9k + ~$2k) + labour in my situation.
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Post by pharmadave on Apr 11, 2019 8:38:54 GMT 11
So the VCU fault was a coincidental finding during the inspection process not related to the drive battery but they won’t replace battery unless the VCU is fixed first?
Any idea what the VCU’s function is and how it impacts the car’s performance?
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Post by jacky on Apr 11, 2019 8:56:19 GMT 11
So the VCU fault was a coincidental finding during the inspection process not related to the drive battery but they won’t replace battery unless the VCU is fixed first? Any idea what the VCU’s function is and how it impacts the car’s performance? Yes, the fault was found during the process and it is related to TCU. They insisted it must be fixed before they can process my claim. VCU controls everything according to the dealer. It’s difficult to tell how it relates to the performance. I specifically asked if the car is safe. They told me it is safe because the fault is only related to TCU. In my case, the fault will not affect performance at all.
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Post by chuq on Apr 11, 2019 14:50:22 GMT 11
That is very interesting - there may be a rush of Leaf owners visiting Hobart with their Leafs! As to whether your car is still in warranty, perhaps it is possible to trace your licence plate and see when it was first registered. You never know.... That might be tricky, as it's from a different state. However the keyring I got had a tag with the original rego on it: 1EAI722 (a WA plate). Maybe some WA residents may be able to date it based on that?
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Post by caroline on Apr 11, 2019 22:24:18 GMT 11
Picked up the Leaf today - only took 4-5 hrs to do the diagnostics which they didn’t end up charging for..they’ve sent the paperwork to Nissan so just a waiting game now. Glad they changed their mind on charging me the $375.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 15, 2019 20:10:59 GMT 11
I didn't mention battery replacement, but the service manager volunteered the info that they supply & install replacement batteries for $9k + 5 hours labour. They'll only do it for cars with 8 bars or less. I spoke to Hobart Nissan today also, who confirmed this. Apparently a bulletin went out to dealers two weeks ago, so call your local dealer. It's a battery exchange program -- the old battery goes back to Nissan. I think that is a reasonable price and will exchange my battery for a new one when I lose my fourth bar.
Does anyone know if the new batteries being installed under warranty are in any way improved? Are they the lizard chemistry?
Thank you, chuq, thank you.
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Post by rusdy on Apr 16, 2019 12:57:23 GMT 11
I didn't mention battery replacement, but the service manager volunteered the info that they supply & install replacement batteries for $9k + 5 hours labour. They'll only do it for cars with 8 bars or less. I spoke to Hobart Nissan today also, who confirmed this. Apparently a bulletin went out to dealers two weeks ago, so call your local dealer. It's a battery exchange program -- the old battery goes back to Nissan. I think that is a reasonable price and will exchange my battery for a new one when I lose my fourth bar.
Does anyone know if the new batteries being installed under warranty are in any way improved? Are they the lizard chemistry?
Thank you, chuq, thank you.
This is awesome news. I hope this is for real this time. There is no way I can fork more than AUD15k in the near future for another car.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 16, 2019 13:09:56 GMT 11
I also confirmed this with Nissan on the phone this morning. Only cars with 8 bars or less capacity are eligible for the exchange. Would someone else mind doing some legwork (I'm out of energy) and find out:
- Is the replacement battery brand new or refurbished?
- What warranty is offered on the replacement battery? As of April 1st, the 2019 LEAF traction battery comes with a "Health Guarantee" that covers the battery against capacity loss (more than 3 bars) for 8 years or 200,000km. Do the replacement batteries have this same warranty?
Thanks.
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Post by kris on Apr 16, 2019 19:32:37 GMT 11
Sixty nine years on this planet has taught me; 1)To listen more talk less 2)Patience 3)A capacity for bemusement 4)Not to push my luck.
Herewith my odyssey with Nissan: Sept 2018- Battery hits 8 bars a couple of days before the 5 yr warranty expires, can't believe the timing, contact Nissan. Oct 2018- Local dealership have car for a day to do battery diagnostics, battery replacement refused. Nov 2018- Phone call saying battery has been ordered from Japan. I really want to ask about Oct refusal but don't, see 1) above. Dec 2018- Another 'phone call, battery will be in January 2019. Jan-March- 2019 see 2) above Yesterday- Drop car off for battery replacement, a 2 day exercise apparently. Today- Collect Leaf. GOM shows 151km on pickup & 172 km by the time I get home with it. Never seen a GOM go up as I drive before, see 3) above.
A bitter sweet experience for an early adopter. Sweet because I can't believe my luck. Bitter because I have to sell it now that it has some resale value. The paperwork says "all parts replaced are covered by the manufacturer's warranty" but..... see 4) above
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Post by empowerrepower on Apr 16, 2019 23:49:22 GMT 11
Sixty nine years on this planet has taught me; 1)To listen more talk less 2)Patience 3)A capacity for bemusement 4)Not to push my luck. Herewith my odyssey with Nissan: Sept 2018- Battery hits 8 bars a couple of days before the 5 yr warranty expires, can't believe the timing, contact Nissan. Oct 2018- Local dealership have car for a day to do battery diagnostics, battery replacement refused. Nov 2018- Phone call saying battery has been ordered from Japan. I really want to ask about Oct refusal but don't, see 1) above. Dec 2018- Another 'phone call, battery will be in January 2019. Jan-March- 2019 see 2) above Yesterday- Drop car off for battery replacement, a 2 day exercise apparently. Today- Collect Leaf. GOM shows 151km on pickup & 172 km by the time I get home with it. Never seen a GOM go up as I drive before, see 3) above. A bitter sweet experience for an early adopter. Sweet because I can't believe my luck. Bitter because I have to sell it now that it has some resale value. The paperwork says "all parts replaced are covered by the manufacturer's warranty" but..... see 4) above Firstly, great post, Kris. Patience is a virtue, particularly when pursuing a battery replacement. As the GOM is totally untrustworthy, I'd love to hear of your new real-life range once you've tried it out. There are two different battery replacement types being discussed here, and I believe that the warranty on the replacement batteries will therefore be different: 1. Battery replaced under warranty: whenever I've had to return a faulty item under warranty and it is replaced, the replacement is only warranted to expire at the same time as the original item. In the case of the Leaf, that would be the original five years of the car being purchased. Hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think is likely. I'll try to clarify with Nissan once my car goes in for a warranty battery replacement, hopefully next month. 2. Battery replaced outside of warranty and paid for by owner: I'd expect this to have a longer warranty period. Definitely a question to ask before handing over $9K +.
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Post by Cachexian (Gordon) on Apr 17, 2019 0:10:09 GMT 11
This is all relatively good news. Nice post Kris.
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 17, 2019 9:22:00 GMT 11
At the current rate of degradation, the fourth bar on my car will go somewhere between 5 and 6 years. I’ll still push for warranty replacement, because under Australian Consumer Law, a company does not get out of warranty replacement simply by virtue of their stated warranty period expiring. The value of the item, and what would be considered a “reasonable lifetime” for something of that value are relevant considerations. For a battery allegedly worth $20k - $30k, most people would expect more than 5 years of useful, practical, life.
If warranty was refused, and I couldn’t be bothered going to Fair Trading to push it, then it would be a bit of a dilemma as to whether to pony up $9k for a replacement straight away, or wait until the car becomes essentially unusable with further degradation, then do it. The risk with waiting is the price goes up (which could happen if the pool of Gen 1 LEAFs still being driven is tiny), or replacements are no longer offered by Nissan Australia. There is also a (probably small) chance that the price comes down. Decisions, decisions.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 18, 2019 10:11:16 GMT 11
- Is the replacement battery brand new or refurbished?
- What warranty is offered on the replacement battery? As of April 1st, the 2019 LEAF traction battery comes with a "Health Guarantee" that covers the battery against capacity loss (more than 3 bars) for 8 years or 200,000km. Do the replacement batteries have this same warranty?
I rang Nissan and they said it's a brand new 24 kWh battery with a 5 year (or 100,000km) warranty.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 18, 2019 22:27:03 GMT 11
Does anyone plan to exchange their battery imminently?
I have 9 bars, so have a bit of a way to go before I need a new pack. It might be time to fire up Leaf Spy and see how far I am from 8 bars. Does anyone know what the SOH threshold is for 8 bars?
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Post by dac1811 on Apr 18, 2019 23:08:33 GMT 11
Does anyone plan to exchange their battery imminently? I have 9 bars, so have a bit of a way to go before I need a new pack. It might be time to fire up Leaf Spy and see how far I am from 8 bars. Does anyone know what the SOH threshold is for 8 bars? Hi bje, The first bar goes at 15% loss - 85% remaining 2nd goes at 21.25% loss - 78.75% remaining 3rd goes at 27.5% loss - 72.5% remaining 4th goes at 33.75% loss - 66.25% remaining. I'm watching mine carefully with Leafspy as I am just 3 down now and should be 4 down well within warranty.
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Post by caroline on Apr 19, 2019 6:44:47 GMT 11
Does anyone plan to exchange their battery imminently? I have 9 bars, so have a bit of a way to go before I need a new pack. It might be time to fire up Leaf Spy and see how far I am from 8 bars. Does anyone know what the SOH threshold is for 8 bars? Hi bje, The first bar goes at 15% loss - 85% remaining 2nd goes at 21.25% loss - 78.75% remaining 3rd goes at 27.5% loss - 72.5% remaining 4th goes at 33.75% loss - 66.25% remaining. I'm watching mine carefully with Leafspy as I am just 3 down now and should be 4 down well within warranty. That’s great thanks - where did you get the numbers from? Mine was 66.3% SOH on 24th March and 9 bars...a week later on April 3rd it dropped to 8 bars and was 66.1% no news from Nissan on warranty replacement yet - I’m 4 years in this month.
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Post by caroline on Apr 19, 2019 6:53:48 GMT 11
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 19, 2019 10:39:18 GMT 11
The first bar goes at 15% loss - 85% remaining 2nd goes at 21.25% loss - 78.75% remaining 3rd goes at 27.5% loss - 72.5% remaining 4th goes at 33.75% loss - 66.25% remaining. That’s great thanks - where did you get the numbers from? Common knowledge, I believe, that the first bar is a 15% drop in SOH (hence 85%), then 6.25% thereafter.
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jg
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 1
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Post by jg on Apr 25, 2019 18:10:19 GMT 11
Just noting, am two days out from 5 year warranty on 2012 Leaf - expires on Sunday - sitting at 9 bars at 69,000km. Apart from it being on track to be suffering premature degradation issue like many other Leafs, everything else seems fine.
Should I feel annoyed or relieved if the capacity guage drops to 8 bars on Monday!? What a crazy situation.
I called service dept at the local dealer to get a quote on a replacement for new - $30k all up!! For a no-fault replacement. This matches the price another Canberra Leaf owner has been quoted. But feeling very wary as the same staff member also was certain the Nissan mainframe was saying my 2012 Leaf is actually a 2014 one, and it's really not. Heading to Nissan Aus for final word.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 25, 2019 21:17:15 GMT 11
I called service dept at the local dealer to get a quote on a replacement for new - $30k all up!! For a no-fault replacement. This matches the price another Canberra Leaf owner has been quoted. But feeling very wary as the same staff member also was certain the Nissan mainframe was saying my 2012 Leaf is actually a 2014 one, and it's really not. Heading to Nissan Aus for final word. Don't stress. Just ask your dealer about the new battery exchange program, announced on 1 April. If your battery is not replaced under warranty, you have the option of participating in the exchange program for a brand new 24 kWh pack.
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Post by caroline on Apr 25, 2019 21:25:28 GMT 11
Von Bibra Nissan called me yesterday- to say Nissan have accepted the battery needs replacing- now waiting to hear whether they will cover under warranty.
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Post by leighf on Apr 28, 2019 18:28:07 GMT 11
I've had my LEAF since July 2012 and done 124000 km so it's well and truly out of the battery warranty period. In the nearly seven years I've driven the car to work every day. I still have 9 bars showing but LeafSpy reports SOH 66% so I expect to lose another bar soon. If Nissan will replace the battery for $9k it seems good value to me rather than stretching to a new car, since I still enjoy driving the LEAF. I will be very interested to see if others can get a new battery when out of warranty. I don't have much faith in the dealers to know about the battery replacement plan, but if anybody has a good result from a dealer in Melbourne I would like to hear about it. Leigh
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Post by Feng on Apr 29, 2019 16:11:06 GMT 11
Currently the cheapest Leaf on Carsales is a bargain $13,900 and it's only done 58k. Just a hypothetical question since I don't need one: Given the price of a replacement pack, is a used Leaf with a new battery worth around $25k? It's certainly a cheap way to get in the door and if it's a lizard pack you'll be set for 5-10 years. Or is the rest of the car getting too dated to make it worthwhile?
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Apr 29, 2019 19:10:34 GMT 11
Currently the cheapest Leaf on Carsales is a bargain $13,900 and it's only done 58k. Just a hypothetical question since I don't need one: Given the price of a replacement pack, is a used Leaf with a new battery worth around $25k? It's certainly a cheap way to get in the door and if it's a lizard pack you'll be set for 5-10 years. Or is the rest of the car getting too dated to make it worthwhile? A related question: If my low km LEAF (estimated market value $15,000) gets a brand new battery and it increases the value by, say, $7,000, can I expect my insurer to let me insure for an agreed value of $22,000? They are probably not used to cars having sharp, sudden increases in market value.
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rangersac
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 12
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by rangersac on Apr 29, 2019 20:01:13 GMT 11
It’s definitely worth considering I reckon. Knock a few more grand off and it would be a no brainer. As to whether the car has dated they were a pretty well specced bit of kit back in the day so I don’t think they are significantly old. The sat nav is probably the most venerable item along with the lack of voice activation on the Bluetooth. Otherwise it’s just really automated driving aids that are lacking, things like lane departure warning, radar assisted cruise control etc.
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Post by chuq on Apr 30, 2019 11:47:25 GMT 11
A related question: If my low km LEAF (estimated market value $15,000) gets a brand new battery and it increases the value by, say, $7,000, can I expect my insurer to let me insure for an agreed value of $22,000? They are probably not used to cars having sharp, sudden increases in market value. It might be worth talking to someone like Shannons in this case. I know many of the EV conversion people have done this. They've had to deal with trying to insure, for example, an old 1990s vehicle valued at $5-10k with $15-20k worth of batteries in it. From what I've heard Shannons have been pretty good with this, they deal with all kinds of motoring enthusiasts with modified vehicles, etc.
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Post by caroline on Apr 30, 2019 12:13:57 GMT 11
As an update just heard from Nissan and they’ve approved the battery replacement yay! It’s on order and coming from Japan - he couldn’t tell me details on battery make new or refurbished etc. said it may take 2-3 weeks then 2-3 days to install.
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Post by caroline on Apr 30, 2019 15:50:10 GMT 11
Just got another call they said sorry but they’ve just been advised it could be upto 5 months as they are manufactured from scratch in Japan and shipped not freighted... he did say realistically it’s probably going to be around 1-2 months wait for the battery.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on May 3, 2019 23:22:22 GMT 11
Just got another call they said sorry but they’ve just been advised it could be upto 5 months as they are manufactured from scratch in Japan and shipped not freighted... he did say realistically it’s probably going to be around 1-2 months wait for the battery. I got a quote for a replacement battery about a year ago, at which time I was told that the batteries were not stocked in Australia and would be ordered from Japan. The approximate wait was 3-6 weeks. I think you should reasonably expect the same. I can't imagine why Japan would have none warehoused.
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