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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 19:07:14 GMT 11
At $20k I'd jump at a 10 bar LEAF. I'm on 10 bars. 86500km as of today. Almost 4 years old. And my work commute is 70km round trip. I arrive home with about 40km remaining range. So still well within my requirements for work commute. Sure I'd like to see more range but I don't really ever need it or use it. I see about 130-140km on a full charge on the display. I'd guess the photos showing 101km of the used LEAF you mention is because it's been driven hard or left turned on for a long time so reducing the range read out. Maybe even the climate control is on. And remember when in ECO the range is slightly higher again. sellmycar.com.au prices my LEAF at $23k as an offer from them. So I'd presume half the kms driven would be slightly more. I wouldn't currently part with my LEAF for $20k. Hi Leafboi, Thanks for the input. It's great to hear that your 10 Bar leaf is displaying 130-140Kms per charge. $20k is the cheapest I've seen a Leaf go for. If we're going to buy it, it's definitely something I'll fly up to Sydney and inspect and test drive, especially after learning about the strut tower issue this morning.
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Post by chuq on Sept 16, 2016 0:23:14 GMT 11
I reserved a Tesla Model 3 on the day of the launch (31 March this year). I then bought a Leaf in late May. I had been looking at second hand Leafs for a while but one just happened to pop up in my area, at the right price point, in early May! The Leaf has about an 85km range at 80% charge. This is great for 90% of what we do. The petrol car gets very little use - typically only when we have two cars going to different destinations. The petrol car only does about 40 km a week now.
Anyway, the reason I mention the Model 3 is that when it arrives (lets say 2-3 years away), even if the Leaf is down to 50 or 60km to an 80% charge, it will still be great as the second car. I think owning the Leaf now is great as it helps us to learn about the intricacies of EV driving. If you can find a second hand Leaf which has a range comfortably above your typical commute, I'd highly recommend going for it. It hasn't interfered with our Model 3 plans because the Leaf is replacing the other car to what the Model 3 will (Mazda2 -> Leaf, Mazda6 Wagon -> Model 3). This just means we'll replace them both within that timeframe!
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Post by jake on Sept 16, 2016 9:53:06 GMT 11
I don't know if there is any point test driving it if you have driven one in Melbourne. The best thing would be to try to use Leaf Spy and a dongle to see what's happening with the battery and inspect the body and trim. All Leafs drive much the same and they are not old enough to really have any suspension wear. The struts are worth looking at. At some stage nearly all Leafs in Australia will need this repair if there is no intervention.
My Leaf has just done 30,000 km and I still have 12 bars, but one of my commutes is testing the limit of my battery (85km round trip) The trip itself is fine but I often have to travel an extra 20 k in the day doing errands, going to Lunch etc. Returning home on this day with nearly zero charge so losing a bar will mean I will start to rely on the fast charger at Swinburne.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 16, 2016 11:55:15 GMT 11
For me, looking over the car in person is more about the traditional aspects about buying a car and that's things like looking at any signs of previous accidents or any weird noises when driving. I'm confident the drive train is solid but accidents do happen. I think we have formed a plan on how to acquire one. Hopefully something will happen this weekend (fingers crossed)
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Post by jake on Sept 16, 2016 12:14:06 GMT 11
For me, looking over the car in person is more about the traditional aspects about buying a car and that's things like looking at any signs of previous accidents or any weird noises when driving. I'm confident the drive train is solid but accidents do happen. I think we have formed a plan on how to acquire one. Hopefully something will happen this weekend (fingers crossed) Sounds like you are on the right track. Exciting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 20:33:20 GMT 11
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 16, 2016 21:15:07 GMT 11
I drive a diesel hiace van currently and sitting on top of a rattling diesel with the turbo spinning is fun for about 2 minutes before it gets a bit overwhelming. I usually turn the radio up to drown out the engine sound but that in turn isn't good for my ears. Every so often if I suddenly find myself in a quiet spot, I get the occasional tinnitus. I will be glad once I switch over to a quiet EV.
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Post by jake on Sept 17, 2016 1:36:34 GMT 11
Yep, once you get your Leaf, you will really notice your tinnitus
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 17, 2016 21:34:12 GMT 11
No luck this weekend I'm afraid. The ones I wanted to enquire about all got sold first thing Saturday. My search continues...
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 17, 2016 22:21:13 GMT 11
No luck this weekend I'm afraid. The ones I wanted to enquire about all got sold first thing Saturday. My search continues...
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Post by leafboi on Sept 18, 2016 16:48:47 GMT 11
No luck this weekend I'm afraid. The ones I wanted to enquire about all got sold first thing Saturday. My search continues... Due to pricing I'm sure. That SYD one for $20k was a steal.
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Post by empowerrepower on Sept 18, 2016 20:37:08 GMT 11
I've heard that Northside Nissan in WA has 13 ex-demos bought off Nissan on the way. Would imagine that their price will be on the higher side as they will have low km. WA seems to be the EV capital, at least per capita, given that they have a keen EV community and an electric highway.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 18, 2016 22:12:33 GMT 11
I've heard that Northside Nissan in WA has 13 ex-demos bought off Nissan on the way. Would imagine that their price will be on the higher side as they will have low km. WA seems to be the EV capital, at least per capita, given that they have a keen EV community and an electric highway. Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye out for new Leaf ads. It does seem there seems to be a few Leafs in WA.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 20, 2016 21:55:29 GMT 11
Good news! I got into contact with Northside Nissan in WA and I have found a Nissan company owned demonstrator still within the 3 year factory warranty period. It has done 26,000Kms, full 12 Bar battery, black colour compliance date 10/2013. We are working out the logistics of getting it transported to me. I will keep you guys posted on the progress. But before anyone claims it, I shall call him 'Wattson', my reliable assistant.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 9:05:53 GMT 11
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 21, 2016 10:37:42 GMT 11
Interesting you should point that out. The one I am purchasing is not one of the existing ones the dealer has in stock, those were a slightly lower Kms and slightly more expensive. It's still officially Nissan Australia stock at the moment located in the holding yard. I will ask for comprehensive photos of the vehicle once it arrives at the dealership and they have more access to it.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 21, 2016 17:40:34 GMT 11
Wow. All this about battery bars would worry the uncertain for sure. It's a good idea to get things in perspective. I bought our Black LEAF at beginning of August. 44,000kms, rust...!, nothing above surface rust, and not likely to affect anything in the next ten years by the look of it. TEN bars on the meter. Everyday it starts off in the garage, from an overnight charge at OVER 114kms. Used daily on 99% freeway at 110kmh, seldom less, until the last 3km. ALWAYS arrives home with 48km on the meter... At prior useage rates I may add. So, as per EVERY night, I connect in the Leafspy pro app, and watch and verify the information provided by two independant sourced. The big thing here is the 98% 110km power used everyday. Now speed and power used/required is the point I'm raising here. If it was say 80kmh, I'm 100% certain the residual power in the battery would be greater, and the PREDICTED distance it would go would be far greater, without doubt. The daily drive shows an increase in the predicted distance by more than 11km EVERY day within the distance to the freeway, where demands on the battery are far in excess of the drive from home to freeway. I have no doubt our 44,000km LEAF would cover 130km and a nice margin if taken on slower, less power demanding roads. The BIG one is what speeds and demands are imposed upon an EV. The faster one goes, the more power you will use. Now in the short period of time we have owned the LEAF, it HAS began to increase its predicted distance, battery capacity and internal resistance has lowered. It's all about how you treat it. The previous owner would readily confess he abused the acceleration ability, and that was having a marked effect on the battery pack for certain. Now we are not slow drivers for certain, nor do we attempt to finance the police Dohnut fund, we keep to the limits, and accelerate rapidly when needed, or could be beneficial Buy a ten bar LEAF, I certainly would. It said when we bought it, that the battery was 74%.... Hell, I wonder how far we would get on 95% . As for the Tesla doing such incredible distances, I'd certainly doubt the previous owner of our LEAF would get anywhere near 300km. Power used is distance removed. I personally have experience with imiev' sin commercial use, and they certainly didn't get anything like the figures touted, but then again, they were abused too. They could quite easily, but the acceleration novelty was repeatedly "tested" by over-zealous drivers, and the distance they went before I went to pick them up with an empty battery was open to question. I'd take them, and often get within ten percent of the touted figures!!!. Incredible, but true. If the driver loves acceleration, the battery will 'empty' far quicker than anticipated, LEAF, Tesla or iMiev. Use it as intended, and all of them live up to the accolades. Abuse it, and just like a hydrocarbon fuelled vehicle, it WILL USE MORE. ANOTHER point to consider is the battery warranty of 70%. If it fails, it will be fixed(in my case I won't be fooled either by simple balancing). What has anyone got to loose?. Sadly in one respect, our LEAF battery is improving its capability, and 75% increasing, internal resistance lowering, Ah increasing...... I'm beginning to feel our "meagre" 70% battery will run the full warranty term now. The previous owner was not sure, but I fully understood the implications, and refused to allow opinions of others deter my purchase. YES, I would buy a nine bar car too. It's all about expectations and reality coming together. The surface corrosion on the hidden strut top I spotted, but I have seen far worse on newer vehicles. Carwings. Guys, do we have knowledge of who is what on there?. Have we "fessed up" so we can compare. It would be interesting. The week-day stats show some revealing information. Our braking is only mid-way.... because the regen is very light when you are doing 110kmh for 57km!. And the power we use is in the top ten in Australia.... On a ten bar LEAF. Point made?.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 21, 2016 17:57:59 GMT 11
And to add here...
I would pay $10k more for our LEAF now I know how good it really is. After all, $20k would buy an almost new VW, or similar. For $10k more, I'd be buying 21st century technology with an incredible array of "goodies" on board.
I'd probably pay a little more to be honest.
I have considered a Tesla, but that's as far as it goes. The price is certainly going to be higher than expected, yet would I REALLY use all the distance between charging, that was the deciding factor, and if it's in the garage after the daily commute everyday, back on charge.... Before really needed. For the three times higher(almost) price, I could see no justification. Charging. Easy. Buy a 16a charger, and swap it for the one in the boot of the leaf. Grab a T1-T2 converter, stick it in the EVSE bag too. Use the original Nissan EVSE for overnight charging as regular pass-by & plug in. Done.
Absolutely great vehicle. We have owned every Hybrid, and still have a Mk1 version for our long distance car..... Which now gets an outing every 3-4 weeks .....for half a day, and back in the garage it goes.
It's all about the old saying. "Horses for courses". Evaluate your requirements, and cater to them. Want an EV that will go weeks on $6.... It's going to be a long wait I'm afraid.
YES, I'm looking at an imiev with a low capacity battery. Why?. Because it will be only used locally for 6-8 years, and I'm certain it will be more than apt for requirements.
There is no way a LEAF with less than eleven bars becomes use-less. It just becomes more suitable for another application.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 21, 2016 18:06:27 GMT 11
Wow, I didn't know those things existed! They look a bit small and fragile. We don't really need a van vehicle anymore, so a hatch like the Leaf would be fine. I'd look over our shores. The NISSAN EV offering of a commercial vehicle looks great. Yes, I know we can't have one, but you could try sneaking one in. They weren't on the mass import list, and as such, I believe they are not likely to be festooned with taxes and deterrents. Might be a good option, and I'm sure Nissan Japan would honour the warranty, even here, as long as you by-pass Nissan Australia. Servicing is virtually non-existent, and any hi-tech diags for it are already on the diags in Australian dealerships!!. I'd look at that idea personally. If you rely on the Gov to allow you to have one, you may be in for a wait...
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 21, 2016 18:44:29 GMT 11
WA seems to be the EV capital, at least per capita, given that they have a keen EV community and an electric highway. We envy you - NSW is still in the stone age for EVs. Disgraceful but true. At least Tesla is making the investments over here in their charging network, that is our only saving grace.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 21, 2016 19:10:55 GMT 11
WA seems to be the EV capital, at least per capita, given that they have a keen EV community and an electric highway. We envy you - NSW is still in the stone age for EVs. Â Disgraceful but true. At least Tesla is making the investments over here in their charging network, that is our only saving grace. Indeed. Our Gov are just wondering how to tax our great discovery. We think it'll have a future, but UNSW paper wavers are evaluating it at present..... It may take a while, but after the billions in research we may be on to something. We call it 'The Wheel'. Now I know it sounds strange, but it's how to use it is the biggest quandary. Actually, I recently tackled our MP Whip, and posed the first question(seriously too), asking him if he'd heard of Electric vehicles!. He kind of tittered, but, after a few minutes of banter, he was astonishingly receptive. He asked that I "cobble" some information & facts together, and he would poke it around a few doors for me. All sounded promising, but talk is cheap, and I still have concatenation to apply to the document, and then get it to him, which I'm going to make a point of doing it in person. I will be closely monitoring the results as they happen. It's a start. My take to get his attention was to get Camden a number of charging points, including the Botanic Gardens. I suggested that EV owners look for destinations based upon charging facilities, and it would be a great attraction both now, and looking forward for touring & commerce. Mr Patterson, if you are reading this, I will have it finished very soon, and I'll let you have a drive in NO GAS the Nissan LEAF to tempt your taste buds. Still on the same subject, and it's interesting to see the state voting with its feet, is the amount of private power sockets being offered up for use by EV owners!. One day we will be able to travel from Newcastle to Canberra by EV with such outward expressions. I'm trying to figure out what or who maintain the lay-by half way on Picton Road. That would make a great stop off for EV owners wishing to have a break, coffee at the mobile cafe, a visit!, and then on to Woolongong. Next stop Goulburn!. Anyone live along picton road here?. ( if the local authorities are busy, then maybe public will have to?).
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 21, 2016 20:04:19 GMT 11
Just to bolster up my prior scribblings.
At freeway, 5 mins or so after journey start. 113km, arrival at office 93km, and home 43km. Actual distance today after 58km, of which 5km back, and hilly roads. Predicted is 2km out!. It's a down-hill one way, up-hill on return journey.
I tried to fix a few images, and include Leafspy battery screen, but it seems iPhone doesn't want to play.
Our battery health is as follows... 49.23Ah, SOH 74%, HX(internal resistance) 69.04 & 'GIDS'(commonly known as counted/metered energy, is charge in/out dependant.
I guess it all must be a bad battery, and can't do what it should anymore. If anyone is selling their 70% SOH LEAF dirt-cheap, I'll be glad to take it off them for sub $20k.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 22, 2016 1:55:58 GMT 11
4wardthinking I'm sure after owning my own Leaf for a period of time I will look back and laugh at my present self for not jumping on the $20k, 10-Bar, 45k Km Leaf as soon as I heard of it's existence. As an EV-Naive buyer my main concern was regarding the battery and the it's durability and reliability in the years to come. So finding one with the full 12 Bars indicated made the most sense to me. Having the extra assurance of having about 6 months of Nissan factory warranty gives me an extra peace of mind just in case something did go wrong with the car. This would make sense to most people. This also means I've got the extra assurance of having 2.5 years left on the warranty for the battery (again, another peace of mind for an EV-Naive buyer) The car I decided to purchase ticked all the boxes and the dealer staff member really went out of his way to source it and made the whole buying long distance process as smooth as possible. I probably will look back and laugh at myself for letting go of such a good deal but right now I am happy with the purchase and look forward to many years of EV motoring and hopefully catching up with a few forum members at future meet-ups. Here is a teaser of a photo of the one i am buying.
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 22, 2016 5:49:13 GMT 11
Happy LEAF motoring
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Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 22, 2016 8:09:05 GMT 11
Nice!. Your last post really sums up the person contemplating an EV. And I have to say that you made a good choice, and I'm absolutely certain you will think back, and wonder why the usual optimism had befell you. You did the right thing by asking at the right places. I'm not entirely convinced that we are a tightly knit bunch, id say we are a small voice in the quagmire of Gov reluctance and adverse propaganda we are swimming around in at present. I do think you will be a good emissary for the EV as a whole, and you will be questioned by the Holden & Cart alumnii. The usual is coal produces electricity etc, Hydrogen is the way is the norm. Just slowly walk them through how it is produced, and through to distribution, and the fun of sitting on a Graaf Zeppelin, or Hindenburg weighing 2.5 tonnes.. You are going to be bitten by these cars for certain.
By the way, nice colour.. Looks sleek and contoured in the sun.
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 22, 2016 12:33:29 GMT 11
Our Gov are just wondering how to tax our great discovery. This can be a case of be careful what you wish for... if we open the eyes of Govt to the world of EVs (particularly a hostile Govt) they may take all this wonderful info and then work out a way to tax it. So instead of getting EV incentives we actually get EV penalties because we are depriving the poor Govt of fuel excise taxes, how dare we, so they need to be compensated for our outrageous and blatant fuel excise evasion. You can just see the front page of the Daily Telegraph "EV Elites Getting a Free Ride" where all those honest, hard-working tradies in Struggle Street with their monster Utes who pay their fuel excise are propping up the lifestyle of these wealthy, snobby, EV-owning elites who don't. Now that's an incredibly cynical view on my part, and I would desperately hope that no MP would act with such bastardry, but one does need to be careful when stepping into the snake pit.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 22, 2016 13:14:56 GMT 11
I would really like to become an advocate for EVs over time as it's such a revolutionary concept that many people should really consider from an informed position. Our plan with this Leaf is to put our pharmacy logo on it and use it to promote our pharmacy business but also at the same time have it visible at as many local community functions as possible to create a talking point for people who are curious about the EVs.
I would like to work with the RACV to hopefully lobby the Victorian government to make a small investment to improve the charging infrastructure available. They did after all just receive a massive windfall payday from the sale of the lease of Melbourne Port.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 29, 2016 0:17:18 GMT 11
Just been notified, the car will be arriving at next Wednesday. Excited!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 17:29:16 GMT 11
Has it arrived ?
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Post by jake on Oct 9, 2016 23:54:32 GMT 11
I got my car from the same place, same colour. Be ready for the couple of weeks of sleeplessness as you wait to drive the car the next morning. It is such a great car to drive and your range anxiety will fade in time, once you get used to how much energy it needs to get places. I still LOVE driving mine a year later. I can never go back to an ICE now.
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