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Post by pharmadave on Sept 11, 2016 21:29:10 GMT 11
Hi everyone,
I'm new to these forums but it seems Australian Leaf owners are quite a tightly knit bunch.
I'm from Melbourne and want to get into the world of EVs.
I'm considering a Leaf for an everyday commuter. I usually travel about 25Kms round trip for work (average suburban traffic, no motorways). I do a local delivery round once a week for my local customers/patients of the pharmacy which is about an extra 20Kms to the usual commute.
I've got easy access to a 3-prong plug at work as well as at home. I work 9 Hour days so charging at work isn't an issue either if need be.
We currently have a 7 seat Honda Odyssey which will do the heavy lifting family-wise.
I have set myself a budget of approx $25k at the moment to purchase a second hand Leaf in good condition.
My dilemma is whether I should buy a 2012 Leaf or wait and save up some more money and buy the next gen of EV to come out later e.g. Tesla Model 3 or Gen 3 Leaf?
I'd like to know your thoughts on the matter and also if you could point me in the right direction is anyone has a Leaf they'd like to sell.
Cheers in advance.
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Post by caskings on Sept 11, 2016 23:06:11 GMT 11
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 12, 2016 1:27:14 GMT 11
We'll definitely be a 2 car family with the second car being our ICE Honda Odyssey. I would prefer a larger car for family use but a Tesla is simply unaffordable for us at the moment.
I'm considering a leaf just for work commute and my weekly local delivery round.
I test drove the white one at Blackburn Nissan listed on Carsales for $31,990 drive away. Really enjoyed the experience, only thing was the battery was 11 bars with 11k Kms on the clock. We didn't really discuss price as I wasn't sure whether it was the right car to purchase and didn't want to waste the salesman's time.
Once the Model 3 starts delivery or the new Leaf is released (whenever that'll be), I can see the market price for the current Leaf plummet and I'm thinking whether it's a good idea to put this $25k towards a new EV in a couple of years time or bite the bullet and buy a second hand one now.
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 12, 2016 5:37:35 GMT 11
Welcome to the forum, pharmadave. If you can get that one for $25,000, go for it, but I wouldn't pay the asking price for one with 11 bars and 11k kms. You don't know how it has been garaged or how it has been driven, so you have no idea when it's going to lose another bar. With what you say you need it for, it should have enough capacity for sometime to come even if it does lose another bar soon, but I still wouldn't pay $31,990 for it.
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Post by rusdy on Sept 12, 2016 12:18:33 GMT 11
I have set myself a budget of approx $25k at the moment to purchase a second hand Leaf in good condition. My dilemma is whether I should buy a 2012 Leaf or wait and save up some more money and buy the next gen of EV to come out later e.g. Tesla Model 3 or Gen 3 Leaf? You'll need to save up LOTs of more money to get Tesla Model 3 or next gen Leaf. There is no way they'll be for sale for under 45k. Do remember, the 2012 Leaf is (and still is) such a well equipped car and great driving experience, it's comparable to higher spec ICE. I am very comfortable in saying that even if the Leaf is an ICE, I'd be more than comfortable to pay 25k for it, if it has: same torque, same handling (can't match the silent drive of course), LED headlights, same internal finishings, bells and whistle, etc. The reason I never paid a car for more than 15k before was because I don't have emotional attachment with my car. I treat my car like a fridge, simply functional. Oh, I digress. Anyway, if you only use less than 100km a day, you'll be in the perfect position to get the second hand leaf. I highly recommend to get the LeafSpy reading of the battery prior getting one though, to ensure you have no bad cells and avoid disappointments. In short, either: - You get an ICE bomb for 7k or less, or
- get a second hand leaf between 25k - 30k, or
- don't get any other car and wait until Australia relax import rules for second hand EV (like NZ)
 , or - don't get any other car and wait until next gen Leaf (or Tesla model 3)
If you get another ICE for your second car in the price range above 15k (just because you're waiting better deal), that is just plain silly. Leaf is simply A LOT MORE car, simply no brainer. |
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Post by hieronymous on Sept 12, 2016 14:08:21 GMT 11
We'll definitely be a 2 car family with the second car being our ICE Honda Odyssey. I would prefer a larger car for family use but a Tesla is simply unaffordable for us at the moment. I'm considering a leaf just for work commute and my weekly local delivery round. I test drove the white one at Blackburn Nissan listed on Carsales for $31,990 drive away. Really enjoyed the experience, only thing was the battery was 11 bars with 11k Kms on the clock. We didn't really discuss price as I wasn't sure whether it was the right car to purchase and didn't want to waste the salesman's time. Once the Model 3 starts delivery or the new Leaf is released (whenever that'll be), I can see the market price for the current Leaf plummet and I'm thinking whether it's a good idea to put this $25k towards a new EV in a couple of years time or bite the bullet and buy a second hand one now. Hi pharmadave The key issue is the current market price of the Leaf. When the import rules are relaxed, the market will soon be flooded with imports and the going rate will drop dramatically. Over here in NZ, the lack of import restrictions has resulted in listings of 200+ Leafs on a regular basis, and no-one in their right mind here would pay more than $20K for a 2012 Gen1 Leaf, and if they did it would be very low kms and 12 bars. There are plenty of 2013-2014 models available with better range and regen, and 6.6KW chargers, and we can get 2015-2016 English Tekna's with 6.6KW chargers and 30KWh batteries from $35K. Another outcome with all the dealer competition is that buyers can demand to see Leaf Spy readings on battery condition, and can walk away if if it isn't provided. So I recommend you sit on your cash and wait a couple of years until the 2nd-handmarket prices are realistic, and the new vehicle market has moved on a lot from where it is now. |
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 12, 2016 16:37:39 GMT 11
Thanks for your inputs.
It's amazing what's available for the money in NZ!
I currently drive a Hiace delivery van for work.
It's a relatively new Diesel automatic. It's noisy, handles like a pig and terrible on fuel.
I bought it at a stage when our business needed such a vehicle and it's now surplus to requirements and a smaller thriftier delivery vehicle will suffice (hence my interest in the Leaf).
The great thing about Automatic Diesel Hiaces is that they tend to depreciate quite slowly especially the ones with low Kms and full service history.
I might sit on my hands for a bit and keep the carsales ad alerts going to see what might come onto the market.
I would prefer to buy a white coloured one as it helps with putting our company logo onto it and it's probably a degree or 2 cooler in summer.
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Post by Feng on Sept 12, 2016 16:45:19 GMT 11
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 12, 2016 16:48:52 GMT 11
Wow, I didn't know those things existed! They look a bit small and fragile. We don't really need a van vehicle anymore, so a hatch like the Leaf would be fine. |
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Post by rusdy on Sept 12, 2016 18:01:17 GMT 11
Over here in NZ, the lack of import restrictions has resulted in listings of 200+ Leafs on a regular basis, and no-one in their right mind here would pay more than $20K for a 2012 Gen1 Leaf, and if they did it would be very low kms and 12 bars. Sob sob  . Government has a big role to play in EV adoption (or not)!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 7:43:26 GMT 11
Do you need 5 seats in total ?
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 13, 2016 14:33:10 GMT 11
Do you need 5 seats in total ? It is a car that I plan on keeping for a few years so having the 5 seats would be good. |
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 14, 2016 0:15:50 GMT 11
I have set myself a budget of approx $25k at the moment to purchase a second hand Leaf in good condition. My dilemma is whether I should buy a 2012 Leaf or wait and save up some more money and buy the next gen of EV to come out later e.g. Tesla Model 3 or Gen 3 Leaf? Depending on the exchange rate at the time it comes to Australia, Tesla Model 3 will cost (on-road) around $55k - $60k for the absolute base model, which will have approx 320 km range but probably not much more than basic appointments. The other thing to consider is that it's unlikely RHD markets like Oz will see M3 before Q2 2018, assuming their ambitious ramp-up actually goes to plan. Tesla has made it clear that RHD markets are at the end of their initial delivery queue. If $60k doesn't put you off, I would suggest putting down a deposit now (fully refundable) before the "second reveal" when the final form of the car will be put on show. Speculation is the second reveal will be in Q1 next year. If you do bite the bullet, you will get a magnificent car. Although Tesla have approx 400k global reservations, all RHD cars will probably be made and delivered around the same time since they make only about 10% of all Tesla's orders. Hence even a late reservation now may not unduly delay when you'd get it. |
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 14, 2016 12:22:36 GMT 11
Thanks EVangelist!
I have decided to wait for the next generation of EVs to be released.
In the grand scheme of things, I see us being at the cusp of the EV revolution, where mass adoption occurs and governments and infrastructure companies will be forced to listen and change the way it does business.
Nissan will be releasing the next gen Leaf in the near future, Tesla will be releasing their Model 3 and other companies wanting a slice of the EV market.
I reckon I'll wait for the next round of longer range EVs. I have just placed a refundable deposit with Tesla 3 and will also keep a keen eye out for the next Gen leaf.
My EV choice will definitely be based on value for money and I have a suspicion that Nissan will be the winner compared with Tesla.
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Post by caskings on Sept 14, 2016 14:23:04 GMT 11
I'm in a similar situation with my second car (an old ICE), hoping that it survives until the release of the new long range EVs.
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Post by jake on Sept 14, 2016 18:23:46 GMT 11
That car is definitely not worth $31K with 11 bars. A more realistic price would be around $20K. I bought mine a year ago with 12 bars 5,000 k on the clock for $30k. That car is a year older with only 11 bars. I think it might be a bit longer than mosty people think before we can buy other EVs here. If you can get a 2nd hand Leaf for $20K, I'd go for it. I use mine for deliveries at night. It's great!
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 0:25:24 GMT 11
Just got an alert for a Leaf in NSW with 43k Kms in Ocean Blue for $20k.
That's probably one the highest Kms Leaf I've seen advertised.
Any thoughts about higher Ks Leafs and what to consider other than battery condition?
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 15, 2016 3:49:03 GMT 11
Rust in the top of the shock absorbers. See thread 'Cleaning leaves in the LEAF'.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 10:11:29 GMT 11
Rust in the top of the shock absorbers. See thread 'Cleaning leaves in the LEAF'. Yikes Phoebe, thanks for the tip! Had no idea that was something to look out for. It seems those rubber strut tower covers are a must for any Aussie leaf owner! |
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 12:14:50 GMT 11
Just heard back from the dealer selling the $20k Nissan Leaf with 45k Kms on the clock. It's got 10 bars battery left.
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Post by Feng on Sept 15, 2016 12:30:39 GMT 11
That's about on par, it should be good for about 130km. Are you based in Sydney? Is it a Nissan dealer or other?
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 13:51:41 GMT 11
That's about on par, it should be good for about 130km. Are you based in Sydney? Is it a Nissan dealer or other? It's a Mini dealership in Paramatta. I guess it's a trade in vehicle or something. The photo they took showed fully charged with an estimated range of 101Kms. the price is on point but I'm really kind of put off by the 10 bars. |
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Post by Feng on Sept 15, 2016 14:01:20 GMT 11
Hopefully they won't leave it fully charged all the time, that's not good for the battery. The GOM can show inaccurate results based on previous driving patterns so I wouldn't treat that as gospel.
Maybe you should take it for a test drive to make a better decision?
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 15, 2016 14:45:44 GMT 11
At least one test drive. I had 2 before I bought mine, to understand a bit more about how it works.
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 14:49:17 GMT 11
Hopefully they won't leave it fully charged all the time, that's not good for the battery. The GOM can show inaccurate results based on previous driving patterns so I wouldn't treat that as gospel. Maybe you should take it for a test drive to make a better decision? With me based in Melbourne, I'm hesitant to go to Sydney to test drive a 10 bar Leaf. I'm planning to haggle with dealers based in Melbourne and see how I go. I've come to realise that my deposit with the Tesla 3 will take a long long time to eventuate into an actual car and I'd rather be zipping around in Leaf for the next few years. |
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 15:00:00 GMT 11
At least one test drive. I had 2 before I bought mine, to understand a bit more about how it works. I drove one at Blackburn Nissan a couple of weeks ago and I really enjoyed it. That's why I'm so keen to get behind the wheel of one. Here's a summary of what I really enjoy about EVs: -Not visiting a petrol station (time and money saved) -Quietness of the drive to have conversations or just a quantum of solace in our busy lives  -Smoothness of the power delivery Here's a summary of why I'm not in one already: -Availability of cars within my budget with 11 or 12 bars of battery. |
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Post by EVangelist on Sept 15, 2016 15:22:45 GMT 11
The price is on point but I'm really kind of put off by the 10 bars. It comes down to how many km's you expect to drive every day. A Leaf with 4 bars could still be perfectly acceptable, provided you never needed to drive more than 40 km per day (i.e. assume you always return to home at the end of the day to charge). But if you think you'll regularly test 100km per day then 10 bars is an issue. After nearly 2 years of Leafdom, the most distance I have done in a day is 133 km. The second most is 90 km and the third is 72 km (telemetry data is such a great thing ). There's a big gap to the rest of my trips, the daily median is 34 km. Also battery age appears to be a significant driver of bar loss, as well as temperature extremes (hot/cold), not so much distance driven and number of charges. My Leaf dropped its first bar earlier this year, but the battery by then was 3.5 years old because all Leafs in Oz are 2012 models. I hope the second bar won't go until late next year or even 2018. I hope my Leaf is still usable for 50 km per day in 10+ years time. Else I'll get a new after-market pack or repack of the existing battery |
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Post by pharmadave on Sept 15, 2016 15:43:33 GMT 11
Good point EVangelist. I guess having never owned an EV in the past, there is still a degree of 'fossil-brain' where my thinking still hasn't come round to that of an EV owner yet.
I need to remind myself it's about what I actually do on a daily basis versus the 'potential of driving to Sydney on a whim'.
My usual daily commute would be around 50Kms at absolute maximum, usually 25-30Kms.
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Post by Phoebe on Sept 15, 2016 16:51:33 GMT 11
You wouldn't buy a 10 bar LEAF for any 'whim' driving until there are far more public charging spots than there are now, but for up to 50kms on a daily basis, it is a proposition if you get it cheap enough.
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Post by leafboi on Sept 15, 2016 17:38:05 GMT 11
At $20k I'd jump at a 10 bar LEAF. I'm on 10 bars. 86500km as of today. Almost 4 years old. And my work commute is 70km round trip. I arrive home with about 40km remaining range. So still well within my requirements for work commute.
Sure I'd like to see more range but I don't really ever need it or use it.
I see about 130-140km on a full charge on the display. I'd guess the photos showing 101km of the used LEAF you mention is because it's been driven hard or left turned on for a long time so reducing the range read out. Maybe even the climate control is on. And remember when in ECO the range is slightly higher again.
sellmycar.com.au prices my LEAF at $23k as an offer from them. So I'd presume half the kms driven would be slightly more.
I wouldn't currently part with my LEAF for $20k.
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, or
. Government has a big role to play in EV adoption (or not)!!
