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Post by jake on Mar 9, 2016 10:35:12 GMT 11
For anyone interested in a summary of this thread. The average kilometres travelled before losing a bar of the 11 cars so far is 28,183 kilometres. It looks as though we can expect to get about 200,000k (guess) out of our batteries before they will need replacement. Some will get a lot more, some will get a lot less. Frankly I was hoping to get a bit more. It will also depend on how much range you need. I'm guessing that most people would be looking for a replacement battery once half the bars had gone.
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 9, 2016 10:45:42 GMT 11
I'm guessing that most people would be looking for a replacement battery once half the bars had gone. Some people will be replacing the car by then, at least one already has.
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Post by leafboi on Mar 9, 2016 12:15:23 GMT 11
For anyone interested in a summary of this thread. The average kilometres travelled before losing a bar of the 11 cars so far is 28,183 kilometres. It looks as though we can expect to get about 200,000k (guess) out of our batteries before they will need replacement. Some will get a lot more, some will get a lot less. Frankly I was hoping to get a bit more. It will also depend on how much range you need. I'm guessing that most people would be looking for a replacement battery once half the bars had gone. I have no doubt my car will continue to perform fantastically with a reduced battery capacity. That said, I regularly do a day trip that's a round trip of 120km. While when new I would arrive home with 50km+ on the range and 5 bars. No I don't dare do that trip without a couple hours of charge with the included cable on a regular 10amp GPO. If the infrastructure was there, a quick charger on the route. Then no problem. But since the chargers have not arrived it makes me feel negatively towards the car. If I can not access the 10amp GPO when I need to do this trip I can not use the LEAF. I am guessing very soon Nissan AU will need to supply us with replacment battery costs.
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Post by jake on Mar 9, 2016 14:42:15 GMT 11
I'm guessing that most people would be looking for a replacement battery once half the bars had gone. Some people will be replacing the car by then, at least one already has. I agree, although it would have to be significantly better than this car. I may not be able to afford to buy the latest and greatest so I am hoping I can replace the battery on this one when i need to.
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Post by richardh on Mar 29, 2016 22:24:31 GMT 11
Lost three bars at 60,000 kms.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 29, 2016 22:53:34 GMT 11
The average kilometres travelled before losing a bar of the 11 cars so far is 28,183 kilometres. It looks as though we can expect to get about 200,000k (guess) out of our batteries before they will need replacement. I've only retired two cars in my life. The first one I had for 19 years and did 184,800 km. The second one I had for 17 years and did 158,500 km. So if the Leaf can last 200,000 km on the original battery that's amazing in my book, I would need to drive it for 21 years at my current rate.
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Post by leafboi on Mar 30, 2016 10:25:04 GMT 11
Lost three bars at 60,000 kms. You could be in for a warranty replacment at the rate your going..? Which seems to be the only way anyone will get a new battery in Oz. Nissan Headoffice has recently told me the traction battery is a non serviceable item and do not offer a new battery for sale. With the lack of fast chargers and news of no new battery option I'm hoping to lose the four bars by 100k too. But I'm doubtful at my rate of loss.
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Post by jake on Mar 30, 2016 11:20:56 GMT 11
Nissan Headoffice has recently told me the traction battery is a non serviceable item Well Nissan aren't really being honest about that. How can the battery be a non serviceable item? Batteries have been repaired and replaced all around the world. But i guess they mean that they won't offer a replacement unless it's under warranty.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 30, 2016 13:45:22 GMT 11
Well Nissan aren't really being honest about that. How can the battery be a non serviceable item? Batteries have been repaired and replaced all around the world. But i guess they mean that they won't offer a replacement unless it's under warranty. NSW Consumer law says: The manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods) are available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise. How long is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the type of product.There are no hard and fast rules as to what period of time is "reasonable" for spare parts for a motor vehicle, but my recollection is that 10 years is considered good practice since a car is something most people would expect to last a lot more than 10 years. Given that the traction battery in a BEV is mission-critical to make it "fit for purpose" then a consumer might consider it "reasonable" that spare batteries would be available for the mechanical life of the car - which could be 20 years or more!
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Post by Feng on Mar 30, 2016 14:10:27 GMT 11
I still think there's a chance that in a few years if Nissan really does screw us over - either by not selling replacement packs or charging an exorbitant amount for them - that importing your own salvage pack and doing it yourself might be something worth considering.
Come to think, I wonder if there could be a side business if that happens? There's bound to be hundreds of LEAFs on the road in need of a new pack in a few years.
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 30, 2016 16:25:54 GMT 11
I still think there's a chance that in a few years if Nissan really does screw us over - either by not selling replacement packs or charging an exorbitant amount for them - that importing your own salvage pack and doing it yourself might be something worth considering. Come to think, I wonder if there could be a side business if that happens? There's bound to be hundreds of LEAFs on the road in need of a new pack in a few years. Yes, you'd have to think that with 200k Leafs around the world, there would be an after-market business in replacement packs.
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Post by jacky on Mar 30, 2016 20:00:17 GMT 11
Anyone in OZ have the 5 years warranty expired? If all LEAF batteries are still under warranty, they don't need to sell replacement batteries now.
However, their replies showed they don't care about their car owners. My next car won't be a Nissan. It will be a Tesla. Tesla focus on the experience of the owners rather than just their money.
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 30, 2016 20:12:40 GMT 11
No-one in OZ has their 5 year warranty expired - Jim was the first and he took delivery in July 2012, so July 2017 before any expire!
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Post by lesmando24 on Mar 30, 2016 20:26:59 GMT 11
I'm at 99,200km. So maybe next weekend
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Post by EVangelist on Mar 30, 2016 21:59:43 GMT 11
I'm at 99,200km. So maybe next weekend Will you be the first Leaf driver in Oz to reach 100,000 km?
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Post by leafboi on Mar 31, 2016 6:56:19 GMT 11
Anyone in OZ have the 5 years warranty expired? If all LEAF batteries are still under warranty, they don't need to sell replacement batteries now. Being in or out of warranty shouldn't matter. I used to be able to drive in excess of 150km on a charge. I need that. Now I can't. And I have no option to buy a new battery. The distance I travel has nothing to do with the warranty. I wouldn't mind losing more capacity as I know it's normal. But the charging network has not really eventuated and now Nissan won't sell spares. It's a little annoying.
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Post by jake on Mar 31, 2016 20:16:39 GMT 11
Some interesting points. Maybe we will given a price for a replacement battery after July 2017
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Post by lesmando24 on Mar 31, 2016 22:27:41 GMT 11
I'm at 99,200km. So maybe next weekend Will you be the first Leaf driver in Oz to reach 100,000 km? Not sure, will find out soon I guess les
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Post by empowerrepower on Apr 3, 2016 20:02:58 GMT 11
Lost three bars at 60,000 kms. You could be in for a warranty replacment at the rate your going..? Which seems to be the only way anyone will get a new battery in Oz. Nissan Headoffice has recently told me the traction battery is a non serviceable item and do not offer a new battery for sale. With the lack of fast chargers and news of no new battery option I'm hoping to lose the four bars by 100k too. But I'm doubtful at my rate of loss. Hi Leafboi, If Nissan HO has given you incorrect info, which given the consumer laws seems to be the case, I'd encourage you to contact them again with that news. Otherwise they'll continue to answer inquiries with incorrect information. They need to be planning for replacement batteries or battery cells for those who need them or want them.
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Post by iamlsd on Apr 14, 2016 1:17:22 GMT 11
Just wondering when others lose their 1st capacity bar is it normal to still get 12 bars of charging when you charge to 100% as per the attached image?
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Post by Phoebe on Apr 14, 2016 7:29:36 GMT 11
Yes, that indicates that your battery is charged as far as it will go, ie 100%, of it's reduced capacity, indicated by the loss of one bar.
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Post by duncan on Apr 14, 2016 20:14:48 GMT 11
Part number for a new battery seems to be 295B0-3NA8A for a 2011-2012 car and the improved "lizard" battery is 295B0-3NF9E
Pricing in the US is $5,500ish, so feel free to ring your local nissan dealer and ask them a price, installed, for a new battery pack. Alternatively for a serious enquiry email Jesse Streeter <jesse@jessestreeter.com> and ask for a price delivered to Australian (expect 50-70% of the local price)
I think that pricing is very reasonable after 10 years of not paying for petrol......
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Post by gabzimiev on Apr 16, 2016 11:57:25 GMT 11
did the lizard battery need some adapter plugs as well for the first gen... I know a couple i-miev have had their first replacement and they had ask nicely for Mitsubishi to do the firmware upgrade before they worked. so i would be careful about going around Nissan and finding you've got a battery you can't use because you need a software update.
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Post by lesmando24 on Apr 16, 2016 13:35:33 GMT 11
Yes, firmware and adapter is required for the us leaf
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Post by jacky on Apr 16, 2016 13:48:43 GMT 11
I remember the US$5-6k price is to trade in the existing battery. If we import the battery to here, who can do the swap? I watched YouTube video about Nissan replaces a Leaf battery. It looks like training is required to do the task.
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Post by lesmando24 on Apr 16, 2016 17:47:45 GMT 11
I think an accredited Nissan service centre could do the swap. But the charger needs to be updated to accept the new battery, and that is the part I have no idea about. The last update I had applied to my leaf updated both of these firmware.
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Post by datsunleaf on Apr 17, 2016 20:40:36 GMT 11
Another bar bites the dust, 50900 klms only 9000 klms since we lost our second bar. Now down to 9
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 18, 2016 8:54:14 GMT 11
Do we know much about other markets where the Leaf has been on sale longer whether anyone has had to have their battery replaced, either under warranty or an out-of-warranty swap due to loss of so much capacity? I was led to believe that bar loss should be asymptotic, i.e. you might lose your first and second bars relatively "quickly" but that after that the intervals between bar loss should increase not decrease?
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Post by jake on Apr 18, 2016 11:29:12 GMT 11
No one really knows what the battery will do when it gets older, not even Nissan. There simply isn't enough cars old enough to see any meaningful data. The expectation was that degradation would slow over time, but so far, battery degradation in the Leafs has been fairly linear. One of the problems is that a weak cell puts more pressure on the stronger cells. Cell balancing will probably become more important as the battery gets older. Probably a good reason to have the car serviced regularly because the specialist dealers have equipment to tweak the battery. Cell balancing is done by the car itself after being left at a 100% charge for 2 hours. Maybe a reason to do this occasionally, although because the car underestimates the charge time, cars that are charged to 100% would probably have their cars do cell balancing quite often. Maybe cell balancing isn't as important at lower levels of charge? All Nissan could do to simulate battery life was to cycle the battery very quickly, but this has not resulted in the real life expectation because of so many variables of use, temperature, etc. The short answer is, no one will really know until the cars are 8 to 10 years old. Since that won't be until 2018 at the earliest, we have a while to wait. We are all true trail blazers. Some information on Cell balancing. It appears cell balancing is only important if you 100% charge or run your battery low. www.mpoweruk.com/balancing.htm
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 18, 2016 14:28:01 GMT 11
Cell balancing is done by the car itself after being left at a 100% charge for 2 hours. Are there any references for this? I charge to 100% very infrequently - maybe once every 2-3 months.
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