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Post by Phoebe on Dec 31, 2013 14:20:45 GMT 11
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Post by Brian on Jan 2, 2014 1:33:12 GMT 11
Whilst I might hope he is right, I think he is dreaming, or at least 10 years out. Citing smart phone up-take is drawing a long bow, in view of (1) the difference in cost of the two items, and (2) the entrenched petroleum conglomerates.
However, he is correct in my case - I plan to be shot of my ICE before 2016.
He should have added the disclaimer that the forecast does not apply to Carbonicaustralis, where the government is likely to welcome coal fired cars to boost the country's carbon output.
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 2, 2014 10:59:07 GMT 11
evs are really coal powered cars considering where most of our electricity comes from.
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Post by leafboi on Jan 2, 2014 11:23:55 GMT 11
evs are really coal powered cars considering where most of our electricity comes from. That's an unfair assessment. I pay a premium for 100% green power. My LEAF is not coal powered. Phoebe charges her LEAF via her solar system during the day. (Not sure if her excess usage is 100% though). I'd say a lot of EV owners use 100% renewable power. Especially any environmentally aware 'early adopters'.  ) |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 2, 2014 11:54:22 GMT 11
evs are really coal powered cars considering where most of our electricity comes from. Just about all of mine comes from the sun as I try to pick sunny days that are neither too hot nor too cold. It's cloudy here today and it's going to be 37 and I was warned so I fully charged on Tuesday when the weather was perfect. Occasionally I get caught out and it clouds over while I am charging but not often so I'd say I am 99% solar powered |
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 2, 2014 11:59:30 GMT 11
To be technically correct you are using coal fired power. green power is a offset system you use power most likely from a coal fired power plant, but your money or a percentage goes to power plants which are considered 100% green. this means that the green power plants regardless of NEM price of electricity can make more money encouraging more development in renewable energy.
saying that I also buy 100% greenpower and have a 3kW solar system. but you can only know it's 100% renewable if your on off grid solar.
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 2, 2014 12:06:53 GMT 11
I monitor my import and export Electricity meters. If I am exporting but not importing then I am using 100% solar power.
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 2, 2014 12:08:04 GMT 11
are you using a in home meter for that phoebe or do you go out and read the meter ?
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 2, 2014 12:11:57 GMT 11
I go out and read and note down the meters on the meter box before and after each charge. I also record my 2 Inverters readings for the day both before and after each charge.
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Post by Jim Hare on Jan 2, 2014 12:16:29 GMT 11
I think Elon says it best. First of all, EVs are much more efficient than ICE so even when using coal they have more bang for buck. Plus, all energy will ultimately move to clean generation so EVs need to already be evolved and ready. Finally, people should be charging themselves using their own solar as much as possible. If this needs to be supplemented by coal until the right answer comes in, so be it! Click here for Elon Musk Ted Talk |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 2, 2014 12:38:13 GMT 11
I am downloading that video in high-res. It's going to take 42 mins - hope my Internet doesn't drop out in the meantime.
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Post by leafboi on Jan 2, 2014 15:35:36 GMT 11
To be technically correct you are using coal fired power. green power is a offset system you use power most likely from a coal fired power plant, but your money or a percentage goes to power plants which are considered 100% green. this means that the green power plants regardless of NEM price of electricity can make more money encouraging more development in renewable energy. saying that I also buy 100% greenpower and have a 3kW solar system. but you can only know it's 100% renewable if your on off grid solar. My 'Green Power' fee doesn't just go to a renewable power plant for them to invest further in development. I'm sure your are much more aware of how the renewable power accreditation and purchase system works. kW for kW I use and pay for is renewable. Simple. |
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Post by Brian on Jan 3, 2014 1:44:13 GMT 11
Technically, gabzimiev, you have a point . . . even in my case. I have measured our generation and consumption over the 12 months that we have had our LEAF. And I know that our grid connected 5.5 kW system has generated more kWhrs over that time, than the total kWhrs consumed in powering our home, and charging both the LEAF and my electric motor bike. I view the grid as my battery - I put in more than I take out.  But I recognise that when our panels are not generating, the power we use may come from coal fired power stations . . . at the moment.  Roll on cheap on-site power storage - that will be the game changer that the power companies are terrified of, but the planet will be grateful for.  |
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Post by leafboi on Jan 3, 2014 11:33:34 GMT 11
Ok it annoys me people like us getting bogged down in 'technicalities'. It can confuse someone less knowledgable on the topic.
Are you drinking a glass of water or fish excrement?
It's all relative.
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 3, 2014 16:52:06 GMT 11
Don't get me started on water. one of the points of tell people it's a offset scheme is that you can buy it separately than just from your energy retailer who will make some profit from it. www.climatechest.org.au/host/see-change allows you to do this I'm sure there are others, means you have to read the kwh from your bill then enter it in to purchase, it's not automatic. the other green thing to do with EVs is to charge during off peak time 10pm to 8am. because the grid demand is less during these period but they don't turn the generators off just scale them back a little, so some energy is wasted during this period typically. I can offset my ICE and it would be as green as a LEAF by the same measure. but it would cost me more to offset the ICE. |
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Post by ravolt on Jan 4, 2014 12:03:17 GMT 11
I do what gabzimiev suggests, charge late overnight. A few years back the dumped energy in Perth, wasted as heat expelled to the atmosphere, was sufficient to power 65000 EVs doing 50km daily! Why is that coal burnt and dumped to the "rubbish pile"? Because coal power stations take 5-8 hours to wind-up. So they keep them running. As I use 100% renewable I use the waste and assist clean energy.
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 5, 2014 14:21:13 GMT 11
I do what gabzimiev suggests, charge late overnight. A few years back the dumped energy in Perth, wasted as heat expelled to the atmosphere, was sufficient to power 65000 EVs doing 50km daily! Why is that coal burnt and dumped to the "rubbish pile"? Because coal power stations take 5-8 hours to wind-up. So they keep them running. As I use 100% renewable I use the waste and assist clean energy. What your saying implies that the power company manages renewable energy as a book keeping exercise. Obviously there will be little renewable energy at night, when the sun don't shine (maybe some from wind). So they just give you what is available on the grid and account for it using power produced during the day. What do you think? Mark |
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Post by ravolt on Jan 10, 2014 19:31:37 GMT 11
Yes Mark, that is exactly what they do. There is no physical way, apart from a parallel and separate grid that, they can feed you only renewable sources. Having said that, here in the west our easterlies kick in early in the evening in summer so I could claim I am taking it from those wind farms. It can be argued the energy system is double dipping on the extra green billing and the feed-in tariffs  But hey - perhaps in 10 years time I will off grid in the middle of the city. 10 years ago solar on the roof was weird person's stuff. Now, electric cars are weird person's stuff. LOL So the energy bodies are, by law, meant to put into the grid themselves the equivalent of what I consume, with renewable energy, within 12 months of me signing up. |
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 11, 2014 15:37:13 GMT 11
Ok, well I guess what you are doing is the best you can then. Making them buy green energy, mainly from solar during the day and using energy which would otherwise be wasted in the off-peak. Good on you. Does the power company give you any discount for using off-peak when you are on a 100% green plan? It would seem pretty mean if they aren't. |
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Post by ravolt on Jan 12, 2014 11:28:08 GMT 11
Yes they do Mark The local provider in Perth metro is Synergy, they offer "Smart Power". It was a condition when putting solar panels up. It is a 3 tiered price structure, peak / shoulder / off peak with 2 periods of different billing rates between summer and winter. The billing rate is 47.8, 25.5, and 14.6 cents per kWH. For their 100% natural power add 5cents per kWH. This really does incentive use of off peak power. Synergy will pay 8.86 cents per kWH on any new solar system. I, luckily as an early adopter, am on 40cents per kWH for 10 years, and I am just 4 years in and have just generated 1MWH. So I pay, off-peak, 19.6 cents per kWH. I often quote 21.6 for EV charge based on occasional daytime top-up ( of which in fact I have rarely done so from home ). Times for billing rates peak / shoulder / off-peak Summer 11am-5pm // 5pm-9pm and 7am-11am // 9pm-7am Winter 5pm-9pm and 7am-11am // 11am-5pm // 9pm-7am Weekend all year shoulder 7am-9pm and off-peak 9pm-7am with no peak |
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Post by ravolt on Jan 22, 2014 16:55:35 GMT 11
Adding weight to ICE obsolescence - Cheaper batteries Note, demand keeping price up for now! |
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Post by ravolt on Feb 20, 2014 16:50:22 GMT 11
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Post by Phoebe on Feb 20, 2014 19:49:16 GMT 11
This confirms the info I had about the Volt - that people's daily commute is usually only fairly short. This means in a car like the LEAF the question of range anxiety is non-existent.
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Post by Brian on Feb 21, 2014 1:54:02 GMT 11
He is quoting average daily mileage of under 100 miles - O.K., over the life of the car.
The figure I had heard in Australia as the average distance driven per day was 70 kms - again, on 100% charge, and driven with care, the LEAF could do twice that.
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Post by ravolt on Feb 25, 2014 10:14:52 GMT 11
A further nail to oil for transportation energy - is oil the new "asbestos" of toxins and can "we" wean ourselves off it ? This research has revealed that the very same toxins that has caused arrhythmia in the Tuna of the Caribbean Gulf are the ones we breathe from car fumes. It also discusses potassium block to out body - central element to life. A brilliant podcast on ABC's Radio Science Show. |
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Post by riddick on Mar 6, 2014 18:05:46 GMT 11
Whether our cars are coal powered or not based on when we charge is largely academic. I have a 4.6kW solar at home, but I charge at night as I can sell my daily solar at a higher tariff. So in essence, I supply somebody else with daytime electricity, who would otherwise have to use coal based power. Then I get mine when the generators are less loaded. So, the net effect is that I have shifted someones (mine or someone elses, whichever way you think of it) use to nighttime.
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 7, 2014 9:46:47 GMT 11
That's fine, but I have a very low export tarrif (8c) so I charge during the day to use my solar myself 'cos that is much cheaper for me.
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 7, 2014 12:39:58 GMT 11
Whether our cars are coal powered or not based on when we charge is largely academic. I have a 4.6kW solar at home, but I charge at night as I can sell my daily solar at a higher tariff. So in essence, I supply somebody else with daytime electricity, who would otherwise have to use coal based power. Then I get mine when the generators are less loaded. So, the net effect is that I have shifted someones (mine or someone elses, whichever way you think of it) use to nighttime. Excellent point. I have often wondered if I have enough excess from my 6.1kWh system to charge the LEAF but even if I do, I'm better off selling it for 20¢ then buying it back for 11¢ that night. |
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 7, 2014 13:17:02 GMT 11
Excellent point. I have often wondered if I have enough excess from my 6.1kWh system to charge the LEAF but even if I do, I'm better off selling it for 20¢ then buying it back for 11¢ that night. Wish I could do that |
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Post by riddick on Mar 7, 2014 18:59:40 GMT 11
My 4.6kW system used to make (before the LEAF) twice the electricity we needed for a 4 person family on the yearly average. And we are in Victoria. After the LEAF we are still going to be at least even if not better. Jim, your 6.1kW system in NSW would more then cover your needs unless you have a very inefficient house. Now what we do with the produced electricity is influenced by government policy. I get 70c for my solar and the night rate is 16 cents. It is a no brainer. Phoebe, what you do makes perfect sense in your situation. We each do what we are incentivised to do, we live within the boundaries given to us. However, my point is that if you look at the sum of all people and not just us in isolation, then we can claim that we run clean cars via our solar. Funny, I talk about before LEAF and after LEAF as if it was as significant like BC or AD. It is certainly an important point in our timeline |
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www.greencarreports.com/news/1089325_electric-cars-so-disruptive-gas-cars-will-be-obsolete-in-2016-says-futurist
)
But hey - perhaps in 10 years time I will off grid in the middle of the city. 10 years ago solar on the roof was weird person's stuff. Now, electric cars are weird person's stuff. LOL So the energy bodies are, by law, meant to put into the grid themselves the equivalent of what I consume, with renewable energy, within 12 months of me signing up.
