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Post by Phoebe on Dec 13, 2013 12:38:13 GMT 11
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Post by Brian on Dec 15, 2013 1:08:33 GMT 11
Another reason the dealers may not be enamoured with EVs is their lower parts replacement requirements - with ICEs this is an opportunity to scalp you and make money for the dealer.
In 59,000 kms with the electric motor bike, apart from tyres, disc brake pads, and rubber throttle handle, the only parts that I have had to replace are the brake handle / brake light micro- switches ( under $5 ).
I fully expect my experience with the LEAF to be similar, apart from the air-filter.
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Post by duncan on Dec 15, 2013 7:29:55 GMT 11
To be fair though (and I'm not normally to dealers  ), Nissan went to a lot to trouble to train specialist sales people, and I imagine we all dealt with one. They may not have been the senior sales person but the 2 I spoke to took the time and were enthusiastic |
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Post by gabzimiev on Dec 15, 2013 8:52:24 GMT 11
Mitsubishi didn't train anyone well not the ones I’ve talked to. the only thing was that yes the dealer had given it a good test drive taken it home to charge a couple times and had an idea of the range you could get out of it.
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Post by Phoebe on Dec 15, 2013 9:38:44 GMT 11
Yep, Nissan trained someone at Mildren but he was not the person I saw first and the person I saw told me there was no Eco only Drive. It was only when I read the brochure I found there was an Eco. When Dean rang me and I told him I was put off by the salesman I'd seen, he got onto Mildren and got me an appointment with the Manager. who was LEAF trained - but it was a long way round to some useful attention.
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 3, 2014 15:31:53 GMT 11
nissian Australia doesn't appear to be doing a good job at all, Feng point out to me that the Nissan website lists the trickle charge time at 14 hour he tells me it should be 10 maximum. Maybe this is another ploy by Nissan to sell more charge point home chargers.
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 3, 2014 16:18:58 GMT 11
Even 10 hours is too long. It's never taken me more than 8 hours 35 minutes and that was after a trip of 162.3 kms with 0 left on Eco. I thought I'd told Nissan that  |
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Post by Brian on Jan 4, 2014 0:17:30 GMT 11
I suspect some confusion may have arisen from American original charge times, where their mains supply is, I believe, 110 volts. Evidently, some have since worked around this by combining two 110 v supplies to deliver 220 v.
With our mains supply having a notional range of 220 to 240 volts, with dips and spikes outside this range ( in W.A., at least ), we are bound to get variations in charge times, depending on the actual voltage supplied.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:31:07 GMT 11
does anyone else have their e-station wall box modified to Brian's portable form and a 15 A power meter? It would be interesting to confirm that other LEAFs pull more than 15 amps when charging on that circontrol box. I call it "LEAF supercharging" When I get my 32A box back from Patrick I shall test with Brian's LEAF. can't remember if I've tested it already. It probably isn't quite legal, but it is the only non card unit that will negotiate a 14A charge with the Holden Volt. the 16A unit only connects at sub 10A max.  |
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 4, 2014 0:47:38 GMT 11
Even 10 hours is too long. It's never taken me more than 8 hours 35 minutes and that was after a trip of 162.3 kms with 0 left on Eco. I thought I'd told Nissan that Phoebe, did you charge to 100% or 80%? The way I work the numbers: 10 amps x 240 Volts = 2.4KW using the supplied EVSE. Pack can take 24KWh. So 24KWh / 2.4KW = 10 hours That's where the 10 hours comes from. But it's from 0% to 100% Also note that if charger/EVSE limit current to less than 10 Amps, or supply is less than 240Volts it should take more than 10 hours. And one other thing to note is that a typically charger will only run at full speed until near the end of the charge. At that point they would taper the current with constant Voltage to the pack. This finishing phase "can" take some time. I don't know that our Leafs work this way, but I would assume so until proven otherwise. I'm going to do some checking to see how much current I draw through my EVSE, If it's more than 10 Amps that could explain the discrepancy, but I don't expect it to be as I've seen reports that it is less than 10 Amps, not more. I'll report back. Mark |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 4, 2014 10:08:01 GMT 11
Mark, I always charge to 100%. On that occassion I got a range of 188km on Eco at the end so I think it did a full charge. I use a 15 amp dedicated power line so I guess it is possible it is drawing more than 10 amps, though I doubt it from the import and export meter readings I get at my switch board.
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 4, 2014 10:48:13 GMT 11
Mark, I always charge to 100%. On that occassion I got a range of 188km on Eco at the end so I think it did a full charge. I use a 15 amp dedicated power line so I guess it is possible it is drawing more than 10 amps, though I doubt it from the import and export meter readings I get at my switch board. I'm trying to think why it would take only 8.5 hours to charge from 0 to 100%. If your solar array is giving more than 240V that could do it but I'm talking a lot more than 240. 240 /.85 = 282 Volts I would say this couldn't happen normally, but as your in the country, and using a solar array I suppose it's possible. What is your array rated to (KW)? A more likely explanation is that there was still charge left in your pack that you were unaware of. Did you know that at the point were your last bar disappears you still have 17.4% charge in your pack? If you charged from this point rather than zero it would take: (1 - .174) x 10 = 8.26 hours This looks so close to your experience that I'd be willing to call this myth "busted"!  What do you think Phoebe? Matt how does this track with your experience? Mark |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 4, 2014 10:57:41 GMT 11
I have 3.5kw solar. I think your explanation is probably correct, that I still had 17.4% charge left. I had only just got to 0 range, hadn't seen the turtle or anything  |
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Post by ravolt on Jan 4, 2014 12:10:39 GMT 11
does anyone else have their e-station wall box modified to Brian's portable form and a 15 A power meter? It would be interesting to confirm that other LEAFs pull more than 15 amps when charging on that circontrol box. I do! I will read the meter box when it's on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 12:26:11 GMT 11
Brian's Nissan EVse doesn't draw more than 10 amps
Holden volt evse same
Mitsubishi same
Sub 10 amps
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 4, 2014 17:27:55 GMT 11
I just did the experiment a couple of hours ago.
My SOC was 68.9% at start and 80% at finish.
So the diff is 11.1%
This should take .11 x 10 = 1.11 hours
Charge started at 13:42 and finished at 14:51 which is 1.15 hours diff. This is as close to predicted as you could hope for.
I measured the current throughout the test with my trusty Arlec Energy cost meter. It fluctuated between 10.15 and 10.42A at 243V +/-5V. PF was .97 throughout. So power is 10.25Amps x 243V x .97 PF = 2.416KW. So I guess I'm getting a smidge more power than advertised.
Charge finished at 14:51 literally a second after I had measured 10.18A. So there is no finishing phase, at least not for an 80% charge. I'm not sure how the charger knows when to stop the charge. It probably doesn't matter that much at 80% I'd be interested to see if the same thing happens going to 100%. I'll have a look when I get a chance.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 1:41:23 GMT 11
do you have a jay car 15 to 10 amp adaptor mark?
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 5, 2014 13:04:35 GMT 11
do you have a jay car 15 to 10 amp adaptor mark? Nah I just made one up with male-10-Amp and female-15-Amp plugs from Bunnings. A bit dodgy but it should be ok. Feeding the 15A wire into the 10A plug cover was a challenge though. Don't do this at home children.Do as I say not as I do. |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 5, 2014 13:18:41 GMT 11
Naughty, Naughty  |
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 5, 2014 13:25:21 GMT 11
And are you using 15 amp cable or 10 amp cable |
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 5, 2014 13:36:14 GMT 11
15.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 17:58:03 GMT 11
mark
do you have a 15 amp power socket?
i have a 15 amp power socket n a 15 amp power meter.
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 5, 2014 22:25:57 GMT 11
mark do you have a 15 amp power socket? i have a 15 amp power socket n a 15 amp power meter. Really. I have a 30 Socket and a 10 Amp meter. I could have used your meter yesterday, but I think mine worked ok. Anyway it would have been painful getting your meter to me and back again. If you have the time you could verify my results though. That would be worth doing. I'll try it on 100% charge too when I get a chance. I want to see if there is a finishing phase with 100% charge. As I relate above, I was surprised to see that there appears to be no finishing phase for 80%. So I'm very interested to see what happens at 100%. This is all interesting to me because it's counter intuitive when the car has a top balancing process. If you have no top balance then you can just count Amp-hours to find 100%. But with top balancing I don't think this can be relied on. Come to think of it the fuel gauge should drift too. Hmm, the more I learn, the more I learn that I don't know much. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 9:07:12 GMT 11
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Post by markrmarkr on Jan 6, 2014 12:15:16 GMT 11
Sorry, my mistake. It's a 15 Amp plug on a 30 Amp circuit. The only things on the circuit are the charge station, the 15 Amp GPO, and the Roller-door.
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www.greencarreports.com/news/1089055_why-some-dealers-are-inept-at-selling-plug-in-electric-cars
www.greencarreports.com/news/1089055_why-some-dealers-are-inept-at-selling-plug-in-electric-cars
), Nissan went to a lot to trouble to train specialist sales people, and I imagine we all dealt with one. They may not have been the senior sales person but the 2 I spoke to took the time and were enthusiastic
