Electric Motor Werks - DC Charger

[quaternary]

I am very tempted to order a 12kW DC charger ("SmartCharge-12000"), with chademo controller and cable, from Electric Motor Werks: emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics.

It's somewhat 'home-brew' in nature, but all up it would cost around US$3,898, for the option that is suitable for 50Hz, three-phase 415V input. And it also can be used for single phase as well if one has access to a high current, single phase line. (They also have more expensive 25kW versions, but I don't have the need for that output).

It would mean when I have to travel from home to a spot about 180km to the South, I would put it in the boot, and I would only have to charge up to an hour before continuing my journey, and I have access to three-phase, 32 amp power near the mid-point.

A lot of you will already know it, but those who don't, here are some interesting videos of the system:

EMW presenting their systems to Nissan R&D Center in USA (presenting both their JuiceBox and their DC system): www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mys5e_E84s8

Video of it in use charging a Leaf: www.youtube.com/watch?v=heJOTydLijY


So, my question is: has anyone actually purchased or used or know anyone who has used one of the EMW DC chargers in Australia (or NZ)?

[lesmando24]

I also wanted to do this, but at 7KW. ChaDeMo cables with connectors from yazaki cost over $2500 USD, so I think that is why they use the 3D printer.
I did not go ahead with it as I do not think that charger would survive the vibrations that you get in the back of a car (after assembling a juicebox). Stationary in a garage would be OK. You would need to get it checked for safety. I have seen people complaining about EWM on EVTV. Personally I have not had any issues with the juicebox.

[quaternary]

Thanks for your feedback. So you had problems with vibrations and the juicebox? What was loosening up?

[lesmando24]

Soldered wire loops to the on / off switch were cracking (still being held in place due to the screws. Power cable from the gland to the terminal block pulled strands out (had to re-terminate). Screws / stands that hold the control board above the power cables were loose. Most of these issues could be fixed with silicon I think. Also the termination block can cause heat buildup (even when drawing 8 AMPs on a 15AMP cable), which I think is due to me needing to change the end of the supply cable to have a metal crimp (currently bare wires into a screw termination block). Not big issues, but over time fatigue could cause a short circuit.

[kris]

The QuickCharge-25000LV @ $US3k looks attractive in that it could charge a Leaf in an hour but it doesn't have PFC on the 3 phase version & it's not isolated. Then it's another $1700 for the chademo board/plug.

[EVtricity]

Feb 4, 2015 9:06:22 GMT 11 quaternary said:

So, my question is: has anyone actually purchased or used or know anyone who has used one of the EMW DC chargers in Australia (or NZ)?

Yes, I'm in Sydney and I bought a SmartCharge 12000 in July 2014 to use as a fast charger for an electric motorbike and with the consideration of using the Chademo capabilities in the future to charge my Leaf. I got mine setup to support three phase power.

Unfortunately I have had numerous issues with EMW and the unit including delayed deliveries, missing components and the charger never actually working. I bought a complete built unit but it was missing resistors (tripped the house circuit) and the fan and main board had no power cable included.

I would strongly recommend you do not buy this unit. You should have a look on the DIY Electric Car forums under the 10kw DIY charger topic ( www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/10kw-60a-diy-charger-open-source-59210p280.html ) and you will see many unhappy customers and numerous problems with the design and safety of the charger. I wish I had read the forum before spending over $2,000 on the charger. I have contacted Valery multiple times and rarely get a response. I have given up on him providing any support with the unit. Now I don't know whether to send it back to him with the likelihood I'll never see any refund or a working unit or I could throw more money at it and get some on the forums to help fix it. As those people are in the USA, freight will be a couple of hundred dollars each way.

I actually bought a Juicebox from EMW and that has performed OK except for a spring in the plug getting bent through use. This was resolved fairly quickly so it seems they are happy to support some products and not others.

[kris]

Bit rough for a pre built unit, I can sort of understand guys coming unstuck with the kits. Some fairly smart cookies on the local AEVA forum might help as an alternative to returning it stateside?

[EVtricity]

Thanks for the suggestion. I've already taken it to a couple of the AEVA guys but they weren't able to work it out either.

[markrmarkr]

This is so frustrating. There is so much 3-phase available, all over the place, including the country. If this 3-phase to Chademo approach was viable it would crack the range anxiety issue once and for all. Imagine if it took only 2 hour to get to 80% - which is possible at 10KW. I could get from Sydney to Canberra in one day.

I've been stalking the Emotorworks approach, ready to buy the gear, but I keep hearing bad things about them.

Not happy Jan.

[kris]

Yeah the 280 page EMW thread is sad reading. A real indictment when the fully assembled version won't work. A 20kg PFCd, isolated, portable chademo box with a 3phase plug is such an enticing idea.

[quaternary]

Ah, dear, yes it is such a shame. If it was a working thing, it would represent such a great solution for Australia and NZ, where the EV owners are still early adopters, countries where we have relatively sparse populations (cities with lots of space in between), there is no political will to support infrastructure, and quite an abundance of three phase (the more I look for it, the more I see it).

[markrmarkr]

Feb 10, 2015 19:26:29 GMT 11 quaternary said:

Ah, dear, yes it is such a shame. If it was a working thing, it would represent such a great solution for Australia and NZ, where the EV owners are still early adopters, countries where we have relatively sparse populations (cities with lots of space in between), there is no political will to support infrastructure, and quite an abundance of three phase (the more I look for it, the more I see it).

My favorite trick is to google realestate to find places of interest, then the social engineering comes in to track down the owner and get them to let you use their power.

For example, I could just google "Bowral 3phase realestate commercial"

Once we have made a few contacts, we can share them on the forum or plugshare, and before you know it a whole new cottage industry has sprung up.

Example scenario: Someone finds a place that lets us charge on a rarely used 3 phase plug - say it's a 7-eleven shop. A few of us go there semi-regularly and charge with our portable Chademos. We pay for power (say $10) and also buy snacks and coffee while we wait. We talk to the proprietor while waiting. Eventually the proprietor decides this would work even better if he had his own Chademo, because lots of other potential customers, who don't have a portable Chademo, would use it. He can't afford $30,000, but he can afford $4000, so he gets his own Chademo. Eventually he gets the bug and buys his own EV too. Lots of other EV owners start going there too, on day trips from the city. Other locals buy EVs and charge at his shop. He stops charging for power - making plenty of money from the snacks he sells us. His little charger can't keep up with demand so he upgrades to a bigger one. Lots of EV owners give him advice, so he is able to get the best value for money charger - Chain reaction!!

Who needs government support, when we have cheap portable Chademos!!

...

But we are well short of that stage. We need a portable Chademo first.

[gabzimiev]

there seems to be a couple portable ones around www.chademo.com/wp/chademocharger/ just appears to be nothing cheaper than $25k-$30k

[markrmarkr]

Thanks Gab,
but that price misses the mark. Nobody will buy a charger which costs as much as a car. And is portable in that it can be transported in a trailer.

For this to work we need an EMW type approach.

It's either that or wait for our governments to do something.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using proboards

[quaternary]

After getting all your feedback here, and reading some of the external forums, etc, I'm getting the impression that the current EMW solution offering is more of a working-prototype-of-a-community-project, rather than a product.

And I don't think it's being offered up as being any more than that?

In any case, the optimist in me likes to think that a product might eventually pop out the other end, and it looks like that is what is being worked towards. For example, in the diyelectriccar thread referenced above, on page 275, dated 25th December (Christmas day!) of 2014, Valery from EMW writes:

"Once the Due code is ready, we will start integrating CHAdeMO code into the main charger, thereby achieving our goal of a 25kW (50kW peak) CHAdeMO charging in a 1,000 in^3 volume, at <$4k end user price including all the bits and pieces (cable, plug, etc)."

Yeah, that'd be awesome. Although he goes on to write: "we could really use local EE-cred'ed testers", so it doesn't look like it'd happen any time soon.

[kris]

He seems less enthused here www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18986&start=10 (see last post). And their product quality seems variable at best. I've seen fixed chademo units as low as $7k on Alibaba but 'trailer portable' is pushing the limits of the portability concept. Don't sell the 2nd-car-fossil-burner-for-trips yet folks.

On a brighter note I spotted a white model S on the hwy just out of Lane Cove today so I overtook it in the Leaf, felt really good. I can just do the Lane Cove to Freemans Reach round trip on a charge in eco mode but I risked a few seconds in D for the manoeuvre.

[EVtricity]

I had to laugh/cry at the line from the My Nissan Leaf topic above:

"Hobbyists that are making 3D printed stuff without much concern for safety, user interface, functionality, insurance, UL, etc, have fun."' I think that is a very good summary of EMW!

The emotorwerks comment on that topic stating "To be clear, the DC fast charger prototype is not actively marketed to consumers." is rubbish. The DC fast charger is listed on the front of their web site as:
"Market-leading DC Power Conversion / Charging Systems. Five years on the market
- CHAdeMO chargers
- Universal power conversion modules (solar, microgrid)
- Scaling into 100kW+! "
and available in their online store.

I don't see any mention of the word prototype except for the Chademo add-ons!

[markrmarkr]

I have to agree. The impression I have is that EMW has some products which are OK for sale to the public, but others which are really science experiments. Beta at best.

I can see how this can happen. Valery has to know that if he can make "Cheap Portable Chademo Fast Charging" work he will change the world forever, and in a really good way. This approach gives us a world wide electric highway. It could be the tipping point for the world to go electric, and drive a stake through the heart of range anxiety forever.

The pressure, he must feel to get the product out, would be incredible. It's no wonder he's making some mistakes along the way.

Maybe this is some small conciliation for you dgh853. Some day you'll look back, and know that you were part of something great.

[gabzimiev]

Something is going to have to give in their design it has to end up being bigger or water cooled because you can't keep it that small and have enough places for the heat to go why do you think all the commercial ones are the size of a dishwasher or bigger.

[markrmarkr]

jehugarcia was saying in his youtube show that he noticed his EMW charger was getting quite hot in the confined space where he had it mounted. He was just about to try to do something about the heat build up, when the charger stopped working.

I think the EMW chargers do have some kind of water cooling option, which as you say will increase the cost/weight/size/complexity. Which is why everybody optimistically goes for air cooled.

[gabzimiev]

on the light side of things these is E Motor Werks EVSE Ice bucket challenge.


the guys a Keba also did one but they had to take it to the next step. ice cubed challenge.

[leafmedo]

Feb 10, 2015 9:23:00 GMT 11 markrmarkr said:

This is so frustrating. There is so much 3-phase available, all over the place, including the country. If this 3-phase to Chademo approach was viable it would crack the range anxiety issue once and for all. Imagine if it took only 2 hour to get to 80% - which is possible at 10KW. I could get from Sydney to Canberra in one day.

I've been stalking the Emotorworks approach, ready to buy the gear, but I keep hearing bad things about them.

Not happy Jan.

I absolutely agree with your idea, it's a lot quicker and cheaper to establish a 3-phase network than DCFC network.

I have been looking around for a portable CHAdeMO charger too, I found recently and wonder if anybody here seen www.electway-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=90&products_id=308

Another is Swiss made (Designwerk) ecomento.com/2014/06/02/portable-electric-car-fast-charger-launched-by-designwerks/

 but it is very expensive.

[markrmarkr]

Dec 29, 2015 9:45:05 GMT 11 leafmedo said:

Feb 10, 2015 9:23:00 GMT 11 markrmarkr said:

This is so frustrating. There is so much 3-phase available, all over the place, including the country. If this 3-phase to Chademo approach was viable it would crack the range anxiety issue once and for all. Imagine if it took only 2 hour to get to 80% - which is possible at 10KW. I could get from Sydney to Canberra in one day.

I've been stalking the Emotorworks approach, ready to buy the gear, but I keep hearing bad things about them.

Not happy Jan.

I absolutely agree with your idea, it's a lot quicker and cheaper to establish a 3-phase network than DCFC network.

I have been looking around for a portable CHAdeMO charger too, I found recently and wonder if anybody here seen www.electway-store.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=90&products_id=308

View Attachment

Another is Swiss made (Designwerk) ecomento.com/2014/06/02/portable-electric-car-fast-charger-launched-by-designwerks/

 but it is very expensive.

View Attachment

Sent from my SM-T805Y using proboards

Looks really good except it's only available from 2024. Bummer. Unobtainium

[kris]

72 kg what a beast! Must be using a 50Hz xformer? Lots of 3 phase in Oz, shame no one can come up with a werks style design that works.