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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 28, 2014 0:18:37 GMT 11
Hi, This is a question only relevant to Qld drivers, in case anyone has already been down this road  . As I'm planning to re-charge my future Leaf at night, I've been wondering whether it might be possible to hook it up to one of the off-peak tariffs, that are usually used for hot water (my hot water is on tariff 33) or pool heaters. I've looked at the Energex site without success, and am afraid that if I ring their call centre I'll get someone who knows nothing about EVs. There is simply no mention of EVs on their site. If I'm using the electricity after midnight, it would be great to get the cheapest rate. Regards, Liz |
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Post by gabzimiev on Dec 28, 2014 8:16:50 GMT 11
can't speak on specifics for qlds but what you want to find out and asking a electrician or energex: Is if you can put a powerpoint GPO on Tariff 33 and if there is any restrictions on what devices can be connected to T33 ?
The other thing you want to consider is that 99% you'll charge at night and 1% you'll top up the car of a afternoon because you've been at work all day and want to go out for dinner and want to add some charge to be on the safe side.
so you'll either want 2 15 amp powerpoints GPO. one on your 24/7 power one on T33. if they don't allow GPOs like in nsw you'll want a hardwired EVSE and a dual supply circuit breaker which is feed from 24/7 power and T33 so you can switch between them.
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Post by gabzimiev on Dec 28, 2014 8:31:25 GMT 11
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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 28, 2014 17:58:38 GMT 11
Hi Gabzimiev, you are a font of information. It is good to see that Ergon (regional Qld network) is thinking about the ev issue, and I'm wondering where Energex (SE Qld) are up to on the topic.
That dual supply switch sounds like a great idea. So I'm thinking that to switch from T33 (22c per KwH) to T11 (30c per kWh), it needs to be manually switched? And that a dual supply switch would live next to the recharger? T33 is available 18 hours a day, so it is on most of the time, but you are right that on occasion I'd want immediate power at a peak time. It looks like a requirement that anything on the cheaper tariff has to be hard-wired. There is another tariff, T31, that is cheaper again, 13c per KwH, available 8 hours a day, but it is unclear whether it is available for use on anything beyond large hot water heaters.
I'm feeling that I now have a better idea of the sorts of questions to ask Energex, and can only hope to get someone knowledgeable (not much faith in call centres, on past experience, so I always like to find some information before I make the call).
Thanks again, Liz
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Post by gabzimiev on Dec 28, 2014 18:35:50 GMT 11
Hi Gabzimiev, you are a font of information. It is good to see that Ergon (regional Qld network) is thinking about the ev issue, and I'm wondering where Energex (SE Qld) are up to on the topic. That dual supply switch sounds like a great idea. So I'm thinking that to switch from T33 (22c per KwH) to T11 (30c per kWh), it needs to be manually switched? And that a dual supply switch would live next to the recharger? T33 is available 18 hours a day, so it is on most of the time, but you are right that on occasion I'd want immediate power at a peak time. It looks like a requirement that anything on the cheaper tariff has to be hard-wired. There is another tariff, T31, that is cheaper again, 13c per KwH, available 8 hours a day, but it is unclear whether it is available for use on anything beyond large hot water heaters. that switch would need to be manually switched yes an automatic fall-over and recovery switch is head towards a larger cost. the dual supply switch can live next to the EVSE but it will cost you more in install cost. because you need 2 sets of wires to the dual switch so if it's in near your meter box only 1 meter of 2 sets of wires then a single set to your garage. edit: if you really want automatic switching send me an email via contact form and I’ll draw a picture to show your sparkie rechargingnsw.com.au/contact-us/ |
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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 29, 2014 20:38:54 GMT 11
Hi Gabzmiev,
I guess that I don't really need automatic switching, but perhaps I'll need to put the duel supply switch closer to the meter box to keep costs down. I'm going to have to re-charge in the carport, rather than the garage, which is occupied by my teenage son, so there is a bit of distance to be covered. Still need to ask Energex about off-peak before deciding how to set it up.
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Post by stewartm on Jan 8, 2015 17:55:22 GMT 11
Energex said I could have another outlet on the 33 tariff which the HWS is on, installed by a registered electrician. Did that and from about 6-9:30 pm and 6-8 in the morning it's off. I have a 7kw EVSE fixed on that feed. If I need it I can plug the brick in to another outlet of I have a chargepoint not far away.
Worked well for me. I'm on the Sunshine Coast.
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Post by empowerrepower on Jan 8, 2015 20:51:42 GMT 11
Hi Stewartm,
It is good to hear what a local has done. My understanding is that a hardwired EVSE could also be put on the even cheaper Tariff 31, at 13c a KwH, but could only be used 8 hours a day, after 10pm, which would be a bit limiting. I've heard from someone I know in the electricity/solar industry that a hardwired EVSE on off-peak rates can't have one of those switches installed to use electricity at other times at a higher rate ( Gabzimiev told me about them), so that is disappointing, as that would be the most flexible but low-cost option.
This is totally off-topic, but how do you manage to live part of each year in France?
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Post by stewartm on Jan 9, 2015 19:57:43 GMT 11
I prefer the longer hours myself so 33 is good. I have a lot of long service accrued. Love france, they have superb infrastructure in all things. High speed trains, low carbon cheap energy etc. and lots of free rapid charge stations. No range anxiety in France.
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Post by antigas on Apr 28, 2015 17:46:43 GMT 11
So I've finally had my EVSE put onto tariff 31 today for anyone else in QLD who was wondering wether it can be done or not. There were a few issues along the way which I'll explain to save the stuffing around for anyone else thinking of doing it.
Being the 'super economy' rate required it to be hardwired as others had mentioned. I ended up buying the e-station which there is already a thread about. I had my electrician install a 32amp circuit to somewhat future proof it even though I know the leaf doesn't draw more than 16-17amps. Maybe overkill for the moment but I didn't really want to mess around later when new models are here that accept larger currents. The first attempt at getting Energex to connect it failed as I was informed that the supply could only be 20amps max and he wasn't happy about the 32amp circuit. I tried to explain that it it would never go over 16-17amps due to the car but no dice.
In the end this wasn't a huge deal but did involve replacing the 32amp RCD to a 20ampRCD which is fairly simple. Energex, on the paperwork, stated it needed to be a 20amp contactor but the electrician said an RCD would be fine and cheaper. Needless to say I was a little nervous that this was going to cause more issues but thankfully all good. The second Energex guy who came out was much friendly than the first and we had a good ol' chat about the car and range etc and he said it was the first EVSE he had done. Hopefully more to come.
We have a large solar system at home that supplies the majority of the charging needs, most of the time weather dependent, and I could have easily got away with not having a dedicated EVSE but value convenience and the set up cost will long be forgotten in the years ahead no doubt. Here's hoping anyway..........
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Post by gabzimiev on Apr 28, 2015 20:33:08 GMT 11
thanks for the info. found a good selling point for those 20amp 4.7kW EVSE. Which I dismissed as underpowered.
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Post by empowerrepower on May 2, 2015 14:49:29 GMT 11
For the Queenslanders on the list, some newly discovered info about off-peak rates and EVs: last week, I attended a Solar Citizens event, and one of the speakers was "energy customer advocate and power systems engineer Mike Swanston", who formerly worked for Energex, and is now becoming a consultant. I spoke to him briefly after the talk, and he told me that a change had come through, allowing for a powerpoint in your carport/garage for an EV to be connected to the Super-Off-Peak tariff, and he told me the doc. He left Energex 5 weeks ago. I had my new powerpoint put in about 8 weeks ago, but was told that I'd need a hard-wired EVSE to access the cheaper rates. I've found a FAQ about it, for anyone on the list who might be working out how to set-up for an EV - there is a screenshot below. So now I need to look into whether I can move onto the cheaper tariff with the new powerpoint, but I then won't be able to use it for charging at other times, which I do want to do occasionally. The cost of having a second 15 amp pp put in would be substantial, as I have a difficult to access roof space. If I'd known about this sooner, I would have had two wires and two powerpoints put in at the same time. The running costs for the car will drop substantially if I can change tariffs, from 28c per kWh to 13c per kWh. I need to ring Energex for more info. off-peak rules EV Energex screen shot.pdf (181.03 KB) |
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Post by stewartm on May 3, 2015 22:57:46 GMT 11
I'm on T33 for my 25 amp EVSE In my garage. It gives me about 18 hours on. Seems to be off 5p to 9pm and 6-8am in the morning. It's switched not hard wired and the Energex lady told me that was fine for an EV. Same meter as my hot water system.
Cheers
Stew
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Post by empowerrepower on May 4, 2015 10:44:17 GMT 11
When I had the power point put in eight weeks ago, the electrician did inquire with Energex, so perhaps the change in the rules hasn't filtered through to all their staff. The FAQ I found is dated Dec 2014.
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Post by empowerrepower on Jun 11, 2015 23:28:43 GMT 11
off-peak rules EV Energex screen shot.pdf (181.03 KB)Today Energex finally came to switch my ev power point to super-off-peak, which will cut the cost by more than half, and provide electricity between 11pm and 9am, although a minimum of 8 hours is the guaranteed amount. We hit another snag when the Energex guy said that we couldn't get the pp put onto off-peak according to the rules he knew of, and he was ringing up his office. I wasn't home, but Adam was, and I told him where I'd put the written Energex info on ev charging, which he showed to the guy, and finally everything was sorted. I've also had my hot water moved to this tariff, so hopefully the bills will be dropping all round. So for anyone from Queensland, if Energex tell you that you need a hard-wired EVSE to access off-peak charging rates, they are unaware of the rule change, which can be found above.
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Post by jeffjl on Jun 12, 2015 0:51:09 GMT 11
The more I see about the hoops and hurdles you guys in the East have to jump through for your power requirements the gladder I am that here in the West we still have a power supply company that is publicly owned (despite the PMs pressure to get it sold to his mates). There are some private suppliers but there is a large number of publicly owned generation units which seems to keep the maximum wholesale power price to $330/MWh.
Special wiring for off peak power. What a joke. Here it is just a matter of phoning up and getting your tariff changed to time of use. No special wiring. Why would you need it. You already have the power lines coming to the house. Why can you not use them like we do in the West.
I would rather have a public monopoly rather than a confuseopoly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly)(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=https://protonsforbreakfast.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dilbert-confusopoly.jpg&imgrefurl=https://protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/energy-prices-reality-bites/&h=632&w=1396&tbnid=vb-TYuv6T62LiM:&zoom=1&docid=6LnfARGGM-YU2M&ei=4pF5VZumLaLxmAXNhYCYCg&tbm=isch&ved=0CBwQMygAMABqFQoTCJufqJLkh8YCFaI4pgodzQIAow)
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Post by gabzimiev on Jun 12, 2015 10:07:46 GMT 11
the remaining publicly owned generators generally are fossil fuel based, which means it's in the interest of state governments to not allow further green energy onto the gird as it'll diminish return on public assets. so you should really tell your state government to sell it. in the east we have the NEM to regulate wholesale prices, so while there is not ceiling on the wholesale price it does go negative.
and there is a difference between time of use which is just cheaper rate for certain times to controlled load which is a switch which is controlled by the power companies sending a high frequency pulse down the wires the latter you are allowing during times of peak load on the network of the network to turn you off. (hour are a guide)
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Post by empowerrepower on Jun 12, 2015 11:49:02 GMT 11
The more I see about the hoops and hurdles you guys in the East have to jump through for your power requirements the gladder I am that here in the West we still have a power supply company that is publicly owned (despite the PMs pressure to get it sold to his mates). There are some private suppliers but there is a large number of publicly owned generation units which seems to keep the maximum wholesale power price to $330/MWh. Special wiring for off peak power. What a joke. Here it is just a matter of phoning up and getting your tariff changed to time of use. No special wiring. Why would you need it. You already have the power lines coming to the house. Why can you not use them like we do in the West. I would rather have a public monopoly rather than a confuseopoly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly)(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=https://protonsforbreakfast.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dilbert-confusopoly.jpg&imgrefurl=https://protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/energy-prices-reality-bites/&h=632&w=1396&tbnid=vb-TYuv6T62LiM:&zoom=1&docid=6LnfARGGM-YU2M&ei=4pF5VZumLaLxmAXNhYCYCg&tbm=isch&ved=0CBwQMygAMABqFQoTCJufqJLkh8YCFaI4pgodzQIAow) Yes, time of use (TOU) is different from off-peak tariffs, as Gabzmiev says. The Qld TOU daily service charge is significantly higher ($34 per quarter extra), and the off-peak rates are hardly bargains, given that you'll pay more from 4pm-8pm (34c p/kwH) and the off-peak is 19c p/kwH. There was a plan to make TOU compulsory in Qld, but the roll-out seems to have come to a halt since the change of Qld government. Getting onto the Super Economy tariff has been a hassle, but at 13c per kwH should be worthwhile compared to 30 c per KwH. The way electricity is being marketed now with deregulation/competition, it is difficult for consumers to work out the best deal for their circumstances - visiting electricity retail sites is as bad as mobile phone plan sites - very hard to compare apples with apples. n.b. A speaker at a Solar Citizens event, Mike Swanston, pointed out that hot water systems are actually a type of energy storage that most of us have even without battery systems, in that you heat the water either at an off-peak rate or during the day off your solar system, and then use it at another time of the day. I had never thought of hot water systems that way. Offering off-peak tariffs for hot water, pool pumps, EVs etc also is good for evening out grid demand. |
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Post by caskings on Jun 19, 2015 21:55:01 GMT 11
New rates as of July 1. Tariff 31 = 12.448 c/kWh Tariff 33 = 18.872 c/kWh. Also mentioned in the Gazzette under Tariff 33 This tariff is applicable when electricity supply is: (b) permanently connected to apparatus as set out below (but not applicable if provision has been made to supply such apparatus under a different tariff in the periods during which supply is not available under this tariff) – (iv) Electric Vehicles, at the discretion of the distributor. www.qca.org.au/getattachment/ff9dae82-2d93-4c67-b618-2b4d11275707/Gazette-Notice-18-June-2015.aspx |
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Post by caskings on Jun 19, 2015 22:03:16 GMT 11
Tariff 12 May now be the best option in QLD for charging EVs. Daily charge is now the same as Tariff 11.
All consumption
Weekdays:
Off-Peak (10pm-7am) 16.262 c/kWh
Shoulder (7am-4pm), (8pm-10pm) 21.125 c/kWh
Peak (4pm-8pm) 29.845 c/kWh
Weekends:
Off-Peak (10pm-7am) 16.262 c/kWh
Shoulder (7am-10pm) 21.125 c/kWh
plus a Service Fee per metering point
per day of 106.728 c
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Post by empowerrepower on Jul 3, 2015 14:15:06 GMT 11
Tariff 12 May now be the best option in QLD for charging EVs. Daily charge is now the same as Tariff 11. All consumption Weekdays: Off-Peak (10pm-7am) 16.262 c/kWh Shoulder (7am-4pm), (8pm-10pm) 21.125 c/kWh Peak (4pm-8pm) 29.845 c/kWh Weekends: Off-Peak (10pm-7am) 16.262 c/kWh Shoulder (7am-10pm) 21.125 c/kWh plus a Service Fee per metering point per day of 106.728 c Hi, thanks for the link, I've also found this table comparing them: www.dews.qld.gov.au/energy-water-home/electricity/prices/current-pricesAll the prices are ex-GST, so the daily charge on both Tariff 11 and Tariff 12 now comes to $428pa, quite outrageous, and more than double what is was two or three years ago. It is possible to access T31 Super-Economy on either tariff. Whether it is more economical to go for T11 or T12 would really depend on your usage profile, quite a complex thing to work out. If you have solar, that would also add to usage variations in summer vs winter. I'll have to think of a way to compare the two options, but it will probably involve frequent meter reading. I'm sure that the electricity retailers and the Qld government won't be taking any less money, but the higher fixed charges work against the economics in favour of solar and energy efficiency, and also disadvantage smaller or more frugal households. Self-consuming solar electricity is now worth about 5c per kWh less than it was at the end of June. Back to the car-charging, charging comes to 13.7c per kWh inc GST on T31 Super Economy from 10pm-7am cf 17.9c per kWh on Tariff 12 off-peak from 10pm-7am cf 24.5c per kWh on Tariff 11 at any time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 16:33:07 GMT 11
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Post by antigas on Feb 15, 2016 16:07:05 GMT 11
Does anyone know what the maximum allowed amp draw is for a residential property, single phase, when hooking up an EVSE to an off peak circuit here in QLD? I ask because I was told and made to change mine to 20amps but on charge point it seems plenty of people in Brisbane are hooking up 32amp single phase HPWC? Cant find any info on the Energex website, they haven't replied to numerous emails so I'm wondering what other people have been told/heard/done?
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Post by stewartm on Feb 16, 2016 12:25:35 GMT 11
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Post by jeffjl on Feb 18, 2016 14:48:25 GMT 11
I have 80 Amp fuses in my meter box.
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Post by antigas on Feb 18, 2016 21:32:41 GMT 11
I'm kind of answering my own question but I'm currently in the process of actually getting an answer from Energex (QLD) for those that are interested in to what is actually allowed. Seems its not that simple.....
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Post by antigas on Apr 19, 2016 16:27:49 GMT 11
So bit of an update. In order to have your tariff 31 connection above the standard 20amps you need to apply for a 'dispensation' from Energex, done via your electrician, after having a maximum demand report and voltage drop calculation completed. The link below is to a Tesla Australia forum where other people are going or have been through the same process. Also I would enlist the help of an electrician who has done this before to save any confusion. If anyone would like a recommendation for who I used, and was brilliant, just PM me. Not sure if posting business details is allowed..... teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/charging-on-tariff-31.62728/ |
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. As I'm planning to re-charge my future Leaf at night, I've been wondering whether it might be possible to hook it up to one of the off-peak tariffs, that are usually used for hot water (my hot water is on tariff 33) or pool heaters. I've looked at the Energex site without success, and am afraid that if I ring their call centre I'll get someone who knows nothing about EVs. There is simply no mention of EVs on their site. If I'm using the electricity after midnight, it would be great to get the cheapest rate.
