Questions from a hesitant Gen1 Leaf buyer

[drong0]

Hi all,

I have been dreaming about owning a Leaf for some time, and upgrade time is coming. My plan was to upgrade to a generation 1 Leaf, but now I'm becoming hesitant. My main concern is about the range of these now ~10yr old Leafs. My main daily drive is:

• Location: Brisbane.
  
• Distance: 30km each way, almost 100% highway driving at 100km/h limit.
  
• Work parking: Parking lot, full sun.
• Recharge: Only at home, in the evening.
  

Q1. I have heard that Leafs lose a lot of range when driving highway speeds and also lose a lot when the air conditioner on. Would a typical gen 1 Leaf with original battery (with 8-9 battery bars) handle a 30km one-way highway drive with AC, being baked in the hot Queensland summer sun all day, and then another evening 30km highway return trip also with the AC on, and still have range to spare?

Q2. Would you buy a gen 1 Leaf if you were in my position?

Q3. Should I expect faster battery degradation than normal if I were to punish a Leaf with a daily commute like this day after day?

Q4. If you drive/drove a gen 1 Leaf, what is/was the range when driving highway speeds with the AC on in the peak of summer?

Q5. How much does a new battery / re-fab battery including installation nowadays?

Q6. How long should I expect the original battery to last, and are the 'new' / re-fab batteries as good as the original?

I know that perhaps some of these questions might be unanswerable, but I would be thankful of any information you could give me.

Thanks!

[rusdy]

A1. The heating takes more than aircon. Yes for aircon, possibly not with heater on. Don't expect much spare capacity after 60km round trip.

A2. Not with 8 bar left for your need. The one with replaced battery, absolutely yes.

A3. Practically no. First gen battery degrades either way you use it lots or not.

A4. Between 0.13 to 0.14 kWh per km. It's heating that kills the range. Expect above 0.15 kWh per km.

A5. Around 10ish grand for Australian delivered car (No imports).

A6. The new battery replaced by Nissan Australia is as crap as the original (http://epxhilon.blogspot.com/2021/04/nissan-leaf-gen-1-old-vs-new-battery.html?m=1).

[tomkauf]

Hi drong0,
Q1. The car will do the trip just fine. It'll just degrade the battery quicker than city driving in a cold climate. I live in the SE QLD Hinterland, and my 2015 Gen1 with 30kWh (some people call them a Gen 1.5, but still a Gen1 imo) got driven 90-100km per day, mostly 80+km/h roads. The only time I got a battery temperature warning was when DC Fast Charging twice in one day, on a sunny 35deg day. Even then it drove fine. DC Fast Charging will heat the battery more than most things.

Q2. Yes, but would have to be 30kWh Gen 1, or a 24kWh with battery replacement vehicle like rusdy said. I was very happy with my Leaf purchase, despite my not ideal use-case. A liquid cooled battery would be better of course, but most alternatives that have them are still newer and expensive (Tesla, Hyundai, MG etc), so there aren't really any in that price range.
Charging on a normal Powerpoint at home is no problem. A 15 Amp Powerpoint will help, but a normal 10 Amp should be fast enough if you don't get back really late and leave very early. I never had a special home charger.

Q3. Yes, but degradation is inevitable, especially with the Leaf. My battery lost 6% State of Health in just over 30,000km, in warm QLD. It was parked outside at work, and fast charged a few times a month. That's not great compared to a Tesla, but degradation apparently slows down below 80%. And mine went from 85% to 79% in that time (had 11 bars).

Q4. Mine has done 75,000km total (about 2/3 of that in Japan where it almost always fast charged), and shows just over 180km range at full charge in summer with AC on. So that's ~110km range going from 80% State of Charge down to 20% (which is the max charge % range you ideally want, to not punish the battery and to prolong battery life). But a 24kWh car will obviously be lower kms. Cold weather will reduce range more than hot.

Q5. Not exactly sure, but barely worth it at the moment. It's almost the value of the car.

Q6. The battery will continue to lose range, but it'll be fine to drive until it doesn't meet your needs anymore. If a 24kWh Leaf is barely enough for your driving at the moment, you won't get as many years out of it. But maybe by then, slow chargers at work will be more common, and we won't need to make a round-trip on a single charge anymore.
Nissan offers the same old crappy battery like previously mentioned in this thread. Hopefully the aftermarket continues to improve. NewZealand EV workshops with affiliates in Aus could be our saviour, since they're very big over there. They already offer upgrades to bigger and more modern batteries for Gen1s in NZ.

EDITED: Q3 I had done just over 30,000km in it, not 25,000km like I originally thought.

[tomkauf]

I know it's hard to predict what range you'll get, but a trip planner like 'A Better Route Planner' (app or website) is pretty accurate.

Select a 24kWh or 30kWh Gen 1 Leaf, and in the settings you can change the battery degradation. If 9 bars, it's apparently 72.5% to 66.25% State of Health (so 27.5% to 33.75% to degradation). And 8 bars would be 66.25% to 60% SOH.

Put in your home and work addresses, and see what % it says you'll use for the trip. If you need to charge to 100% every day, and get back with a very low charge level, that's not great, even if you would make it.

[drong0]

Hi rusdy and tomkauf,

Thanks for the replies, I'll take it all into consideration. It looks like a 30kWh battery would suit me better for longer so I'll try to find one of those. If I opt for a Japanese import is there much drama getting it serviced by Nissan, or anywhere else?

Cheers!

[tomkauf]

No problem. Regarding servicing, Nissan barely seems to want anything to do with Leafs, let alone Japanese Imports. At least that has been my experience when trying to get a few parts (just little interior cosmetic ones). They never got back to me on all occasions, despite several calls and me already having the Part#s. That was Moorooka iirc.
Others might have more detailed information related to servicing.

I haven't had my Leaf serviced, and I don't plan to unless something needs doing. From what I've heard, they basically just fill up the washer fluid and check for damage. If there aren't any error lights, there's not really much to do. Just tyres. Even brakes last a very long time, but not as long as on EVs with stronger regen.
But I totally understand if people want to stick to Nissan recommended servicing for peace of mind, and keeping the car's value higher. There's a place I've heard of called Hybrid & EV Supercentre in Browns Plains, if that helps. But I have no idea if they're good.

[EVangelist]

Regarding servicing the LEAF, we have totally abandoned Nissan after getting a new battery installed early last year. We found a local mechanic in Sydney who is quite comfortable servicing EVs - you should be able to find one in Brisbane, a growing number of them advertise they service EVs.

The straw that broke the camel’s back last year was when the windscreen washer spray failed.  Nissan service said the washer pump was busted, they’d need to order a new one ($650) and it would take a few months to come from Japan. Months went by with no word on the pump arriving, phone calls not returned and emails ignored.

So we tried this new mechanic and they fixed it without a hassle.  The washer pump was fine, a diverter valve was busted, and they had a replacement there which was compatible. Fixed for $95 including labour. They were great! Friendly and honest and actually interested in fixing the problem rather than blowing us off.

And as tomkauf says, very little goes wrong with EVs so there’s not much servicing to be done.  The only “servicing” we do is getting the annual rego inspection done, unless something actually breaks (and the washer is the only thing that has broken in 7.5 years).  Which is why the legacy car dealers absolutely hate selling EVs - there’s no gravy train of after-sales servicing that they rely on for income.  I’m not shedding any tears for them…