Generator Charging

[noddy]

Plugged our Leaf (2016 Grey import) into our backup generator today, but it was not successful.  We normally charge from a 15amp  outlet(@ 2.7/2.9Kw) at home using the Nissan Jet charge that came with the vehicle.  Thought it would be good to have a backup just in case we ever do get caught out.  The generator is our old house backup generator, a petrol 3Kw (3.5Kw max) that we have had for nearly 20 years.  It runs the house and everything just fine.

When I plugged in the Leaf the Jet unit did its normal then settled down with a flashing green ready light (charge & fault light OFF) and no charging.  The manual indicates for the ready light flashing green an other lights off

"When the ground cable is disconnected Check the grounding of the outlet being used. If the grounding is normal, contact a NISSAN certified LEAF dealer."

Was looking to update our generator but would like to find out what this issue is so I don't inadvertently purchase something that also will not work. 

[mickey]

In your house wiring the neutral is connected to the earth in the main switchboard. This is missing in your generator.

[tomkauf]

As Mickey, your generator doesn't have this so-called MEN Link, so the EVSE reports a ground fault.

Andy's video explains it well (from 5:00min onwards). He had the same problem with his Tesla, and an Inverter. I think he got a different Inverter at a later stage, but his video explains how he got it working without having to spend any money. youtu.be/yar9g5gqyK4

[praxidice]

This issue has been done to death in various places but as far as I'm aware, not recently, consequently its hardly surprising that many are not aware of the solution. The neutral earth link is indeed the cause and an easy workaround with dual outlet generators is to make a special plug with 100 ohm 2 watt (or more) resistor connected between earth and neutral. This will fit under the plug cover so  no risk of being zapped. The special plug satisfies the EVSE that all is well with the neutral earth link and it then works normally.

[noddy]

Thanks for the replies, it helps a lot. I did search the forum using "Generator" but did not see anything. Have now used "MEN link" also but that did not produce anymore. If this has been discussed in depth before, I would be happy to have a better keyword to search the forum.

So now I have an understanding of what a MEN link is, but this is a long way from being confident to connect a link between the neutral & earth on my generator. I am comfortable with DC but my skills do not yet extend to AC of any potentially hazardous level. BTW my old generator only has a single outlet for AC & one for DC. It has done a lot of post cyclone work, but with very little in between.

Thanks for the link to Andy's video, I had not seen that one. Any further educational replies will be much appreciated.

[brunohill]

Also you may not be able to charge at 2.9 kW with the 3.5 kW generator at 100% duty cycle. Perhaps it can be set at 6,8 or 10 amps instead.

[tomkauf]

Apr 20, 2021 22:35:01 GMT 11 noddy said:

Thanks for the replies, it helps a lot. I did search the forum using "Generator" but did not see anything. Have now used "MEN link" also but that did not produce anymore. If this has been discussed in depth before, I would be happy to have a better keyword to search the forum.

So now I have an understanding of what a MEN link is, but this is a long way from being confident to connect a link between the neutral & earth on my generator. I am comfortable with DC but my skills do not yet extend to AC of any potentially hazardous level. BTW my old generator only has a single outlet for AC & one for DC. It has done a lot of post cyclone work, but with very little in between.

Thanks for the link to Andy's video, I had not seen that one. Any further educational replies will be much appreciated.

I haven't seen it discussed anywhere either. There might be talk about it somewhere, but not that I've seen.

This guy had the same issue with a portable battery. It didn't charge because of the ground issue. So what he did in this video is get an electrician to make an adapter cable, and it worked. Inside that, the Ground is connected to the neutral.
youtu.be/nZQExXCJY2c

Unless you get a generator that has that feature (not sure they exist), this may be your only option. Andy replaced his inverter with a more expensive one that had an MEN Link, so I know they exist. But not sure about generators.

[johnmath]

I am off grid and regularly charge our Nissan Leaf at home from the house power system. Sometimes I need to run the Honda petrol generator, however the generator is feeding into the power system (Selectronic SPPro) to charge the house batteries and the car charges from the house inverter as per normal. This way there is no issue with generator charging. The generator is supposedly capable of 5.5kVA, but in reality it struggles to produce more that 4kW continuously into a load with a unity power factor, in other words it struggles to continuously generate 4kVa. From my experience that exaggeration of specification is pretty typical for small petrol generators and something that needs to be borne in mind if purchasing a generator. i.e. buy one rated at ~50% or more kVA than what you think is your maximum requirement.

[noddy]

Interesting video would not have thought a portable battery would have the capacity required when accounting for losses. I think the video confirms it. But also helps understanding of the earth issue. Thanks.

Power the house with the generator & plug the car into the house. I think I will try that over the weekend. With fridges & fans it will be interesting to see if the car will accept the remaining power. The car at home normally charges at close to 15amps.

We bought a type 2 to J1772 cable to try at a charging station about 20K's from here. Unfortunately the charging facility is non functional and has been for some months. However there is one other charging station in range that is type 2 so we went into town last night to try it. Expecting it to charge @ 2.7/2.9Kw was surprised to find in only charged @ 1.4Kw. Thought my onboard would not have accepted less than what we use at home.

As for upgrading the generator, it does not look like they have got any smaller or lighter with real output in the last 20 years. Might be chasing a dead horse on this one.

[jin]

While the workaround of leaking neutral to earth is convenient, suggesting this to a novice is dangerous.

I'm more surprised no one has actually mentioned yet.. to ground your generator properly which is the safest option yet.

It's simple, effective, safer and achieves the goal.

All that's needed is to stake a copper rod and connect it with wire to the generators specific earth point.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0CMrGbCnKAc

[noddy]

Would something like an off the shelf inline rcd like a "Powersafe Inline Duo" do the trick?  

[coulomb]

May 21, 2021 12:31:08 GMT 11 noddy said:

Would something like an off the shelf inline rcd like a "Powersafe Inline Duo" do the trick?  

I very much doubt it. The EVSE is looking for a solid earth somehow; an RCD won't achieve that.

[4wardthinking]

And bear in mind the difference between KVA, and KW.
It’s almost a play on words if you are buying. There’s nothing incorrect about stating KVA, and it’s actually correct to do so.

The big trIck is that KW is markedly different, and I’d keep an eye on the load it can deliver, and fir what period of time.

Each of the ratings are for a reason, without going into the tech side, or reason.

If buying, ensure you, and the vendor are on the same page. I’ve seen so many that have been bitten by this, and neither are at fault, it’s just about asking the right questions.

Even with my understanding, I was fooled by the so called Solar Installers. Even the techno aware can be ‘had’ with fancy wording.

[noddy]

So in the end we have not solved/progressed this issue, mostly because the potential scenario even in our location and mind, has not and is unlikely to arise. Every 240v powerpoint is a charging station. So we have moved on. Of course we are not going to be able to tow a caravan along the Gibb River road (have you seen how much caravans cost lately, more than a Tesla). The limitations of the leaf have not been range but what we can fit in the back. For that I have a ice van. The 2 work well and compliment each other. NT now has 2 fast chargers and only 1500 klms between them and none of their solar panels run on gas. :-)

[coulomb]

Jul 22, 2022 22:56:20 GMT 11 noddy said:

NT now has 2 fast chargers and only 1500 klms between them and none of their solar panels run on gas. :-)

I had to check Plugshare to verify that this is true. It seems to be :-O

And the "big" one in Darwin is 25 kW; Alice Springs 20 kW. I think we have a "winner" for the least EV friendly state or territory in Australia.

Edit: Actually, South Australia is worse if you consider 100 km or further north of Adelaide.

Western Australia has only one in the top half of that very large state.

North Queensland has nothing away from the coast either, although there are some planned for the next year or so, out to Roma and Mount Isa for example.

Australia is a big country.