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Post by ravolt on Feb 14, 2016 22:36:52 GMT 11
Sad Drove my car out this morning to discover I have lost another bar 10000km after the loss of the first. It was no surprise really. So, is that really 16.7% lost or 4kWh? 2 years and 3 months of fun though!
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Post by jake on Feb 15, 2016 0:06:16 GMT 11
I think you have a few years left in that battery, and if range becomes a problem you can always pay to get the bad cells replaced. However if its still meeeting your range needs, then I wouldn't worry too much. The only thing is that there are so few cars in Australia, I don't know of anyone who has actually had that done yet. Anyone else know? I am hoping my car will last 10 years. I am prepared to pay for some cell replacement if it falls below my range needs.
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 15, 2016 8:04:14 GMT 11
The first bar represents 15%, the rest 7.5% each, so 2 bars is at least 22.5% of about 21 KWh (when new) or 4.7 KWh. Bar loss is not due to bad cells; rather it is because of repeated charging over time gradually resulting in the migration of lithium ions from ALL the cell cathodes to the anodes, which eventually coats the anodes in lithium. This buildup steadily reduces the capacity to pass a charge, and is irreversible.
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Post by ravolt on Feb 15, 2016 11:25:41 GMT 11
Ah - that reminds me that I heard that the first bar was worth more than it's ratio. The range is fine for quite a while. I anticipated an 8 year life span. The rang had been creeping down so I am not surprised, though saddened not disappointed. Bit like compression loss on a ICE. Kinda exciting that a battery replacement in 4 years could be a larger pack. I think Nissan will lose the inventory of 24kWh before allowing larger packs into the original spec'd car. I hope so. If they don't then there is likely to be a 3rd party vendor - even LG or Panasonic ( Tesla ) packs as they are in the business of selling batteries.
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Post by southernvolt on Feb 15, 2016 11:35:02 GMT 11
The first bar represents 15%, the rest 7.5% each, so 2 bars is at least 22.5% of about 21 KWh (when new) or 4.7 KWh. Bar loss is not due to bad cells; rather it is because of repeated charging over time gradually resulting in the migration of lithium ions from ALL the cell cathodes to the anodes, which eventually coats the anodes in lithium. This buildup steadily reduces the capacity to pass a charge, and is irreversible. I understand there's science behind this sort of thing but why then does it vary so much?! I'm in the same car as ravolt, same kms give or take, and therefore assume the same charges, and yet I have yet to lose a bar. I've read that heat plays a role and therefore maybe it's because I'min Melbourne and he's in Perth I believe. Any thoughts?
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Post by jeffjl on Feb 15, 2016 11:55:40 GMT 11
Yeah, Perth cars seem to have had a much greater battery loss than other states. I am inclined to believe somebody did not store them here correctly. Lost my first bar at ~8,000. Still to lose my second though at 15,000km. Two years of ownership in April.
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Post by antigas on Feb 15, 2016 12:00:05 GMT 11
I think it will be interesting to see Nissan's move in a few years with regards to the battery warranty. I know that the warranty states getting the car back up to 9 bars is all their obliged to do, but will the old (first gen) battery cells even be available then? Hopefully not and they just have to replace the whole battery pack
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Post by Feng on Feb 15, 2016 12:17:43 GMT 11
I just hope they won't charge us something exorbitant for that. That's when importing your own salvage pack from overseas might be worth considering.
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 15, 2016 13:32:35 GMT 11
The first bar represents 15%, the rest 7.5% each, so 2 bars is at least 22.5% of about 21 KWh (when new) or 4.7 KWh. Bar loss is not due to bad cells; rather it is because of repeated charging over time gradually resulting in the migration of lithium ions from ALL the cell cathodes to the anodes, which eventually coats the anodes in lithium. This buildup steadily reduces the capacity to pass a charge, and is irreversible. I understand there's science behind this sort of thing but why then does it vary so much?! I'm in the same car as ravolt, same kms give or take, and therefore assume the same charges, and yet I have yet to lose a bar. I've read that heat plays a role and therefore maybe it's because I'min Melbourne and he's in Perth I believe. Any thoughts? Hi southernvolt You may well be right with heat being a factor - Perth has had very hot weather in the past few weeks. Another possibility is how your respective Leafs are charged. There is quite a bit of discussion around "depth of discharge" (DoD) i.e. complete depth would be from 100% to turtle, with some consensus that more frequent partial DoDs are better for the battery than (fewer) total DoDs. So, for argument's sake, you and ravolt are doing much the same kms, but he might nightly charge 100% for a weekday commute and not use his car in the weekends, whereas you might always charge 80% and use your car 7 days. So you would have more frequent but shorter charges. You would also need to compare how the cars are driven - if a commute is mostly fast highway speeds (100+) every day, versus a much slower average amongst city traffic. Occasionally it won't matter, but every day year-round it will, just as it would cause greater wear on an ICE car. I bought my Leaf for local driving, don't drive it very far, and hardly ever at highway speeds, so I don't worry about that. But what I DO do is to only charge for the kms I intend to do, which means I do part charging (LBW/20%-40%) several times a week, and never charge past 40% because I don't have any return trip longer than 30km. I can go out in the morning, use the charger while I have lunch, then go out again. So my Leaf is always under 40% which is the recommendation for long-term storage. You can see the result in my signature....
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Post by rusdy on Feb 15, 2016 18:32:44 GMT 11
Hi Ladies and Gents, After reading the thread above, I've run my SOH data (taken from LeafSPY): I have to be honest, after reading my own data (I can assure you the data is legit!), I really find it super hard to understand the correlation of lost SOH to the real life. I did nothing different from the first 3 months compared to rest (well, I actually charged to 100% all the time for the first 3 months): - Is it due to number of charges (hence km driven)? Well, my Leaf is driven pretty much the same pattern day-in-day-out with same charging pattern as well. Alas, I can't see the correlation here!
- Is it due to heat? Well, I do live in Perth, but the graph above, again, I see no correlation, since the sharp drop starts in spring! I do limit my charging to 80% all the time regardless the weather.
If the pattern persists, I'm going to loose that 3 bars under 5 years (or 100,000km) . Not sure whether the battery warranty will cover it or not since I bought it second hand (hence, the data is only from last mid-year).
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 15, 2016 20:46:44 GMT 11
I have read lots of MNL posts that suggested that SOH/AHr holds up pretty well for heavy use and frequent 100% charging, and/or that a drop could be reversed by 2-3 100% charges, albeit temporarily - I tried boosting my AHr and it did go back up for a little while. Your chart to me looks much like a linear decline (as expected) that is time-based, but the slide is slowed down (flatter slope) to begin with, because of your 100% charging for higher kms in the first 3 months.
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Post by jake on Feb 15, 2016 23:44:25 GMT 11
The first bar represents 15%, the rest 7.5% each, so 2 bars is at least 22.5% of about 21 KWh (when new) or 4.7 KWh. Bar loss is not due to bad cells; rather it is because of repeated charging over time gradually resulting in the migration of lithium ions from ALL the cell cathodes to the anodes, which eventually coats the anodes in lithium. This buildup steadily reduces the capacity to pass a charge, and is irreversible. You are absolutely correct. This is how lithium ion cells "go bad" but they don't usually degrade at the same rate, so if you can replace the worst cells you can get some more life out of your battery.
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Post by jake on Feb 15, 2016 23:57:55 GMT 11
The other thing to note here is that because lithium ion batteries degrade because of charging/ discharging, kilometres travelled will have more bearing than time. Heat is definitely the best killer of lithium ion batteries, whether it is generated by charging / discharging or the environment. Keeping your battery cool will make it last longer.
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 16, 2016 16:27:18 GMT 11
The first bar represents 15%, the rest 7.5% each, so 2 bars is at least 22.5% of about 21 KWh (when new) or 4.7 KWh. Bar loss is not due to bad cells; rather it is because of repeated charging over time gradually resulting in the migration of lithium ions from ALL the cell cathodes to the anodes, which eventually coats the anodes in lithium. This buildup steadily reduces the capacity to pass a charge, and is irreversible. You are absolutely correct. This is how lithium ion cells "go bad" but they don't usually degrade at the same rate, so if you can replace the worst cells you can get some more life out of your battery. Yes, IF you can replace the worst cells... Nissan has chosen not to for claims against the USA guarantee, rather the whole pack is replaced.
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 16, 2016 16:43:02 GMT 11
The other thing to note here is that because lithium ion batteries degrade because of charging/ discharging, kilometres travelled will have more bearing than time. Try telling that to all the Leaf owners whose cars have low Odo miles/kms but have lost as many battery bars as have high use cars of the same age. This is an outdated perception; calendar age is proving to be the best primary indicator. You can see this from posts on this forum, and from all the data collected on MNL.
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Post by Phoebe on Feb 16, 2016 16:55:53 GMT 11
The other thing to note here is that because lithium ion batteries degrade because of charging/ discharging, kilometres travelled will have more bearing than time. Try telling that to all the Leaf owners whose cars have low Odo miles/kms but have lost as many battery bars as have high use cars of the same age. This is an outdated perception; calendar age is proving to be the best primary indicator. You can see this from posts on this forum, and from all the data collected on MNL. I don't know about that! I've had my LEAF since November 2012 and I haven't lost any bars. I only charge about once every three weeks - that would indicate charging is a bigger factor than age, unless I am the exception to prove the rule
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 16, 2016 17:28:17 GMT 11
You've barely left the showroom in your Leaf, Phoebe! You have to use the car to lose the bar...
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2016 0:15:14 GMT 11
linkThe other thing to note here is that because lithium ion batteries degrade because of charging/ discharging, kilometres travelled will have more bearing than time. Try telling that to all the Leaf owners whose cars have low Odo miles/kms but have lost as many battery bars as have high use cars of the same age. This is an outdated perception; calendar age is proving to be the best primary indicator. You can see this from posts on this forum, and from all the data collected on MNL. Yes I should have also said that charging/discharging is not the only cause of Lithium Ion battery degradation. They will also suffer if they are held at 100% charge or 0% charge and the other factor is how much heat the battey has been subjected to. I don't know of any others, but someone might know. A Lithium Ion battery will last longer if it is not subjected to heat and held close to 50% charge. That is the correct way to store a Lithium Ion battery (50% charge, no heat). (Nissan dealers were menat to keep stored cars batteries at 40%) If a battey is stored correctly it will last many years. Calendar age does have a bearing, but I believe the other factors have a greater bearing. For instance, if you kept a Lithium Ion battery at 50%, I believe it wouldn't deteriate very much at all. If age were a big factor then the 3 year old car that I have should have already lost a bar. It could be that peole that have early battery degradation could have been victim to ignorant dealers who did not store the cars properly. Here is an interesting article on how to prolong battery life. Note that age is mentioned as a factor, but cycling and heat are the main degradation factors. batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2016 0:26:28 GMT 11
You are absolutely correct. This is how lithium ion cells "go bad" but they don't usually degrade at the same rate, so if you can replace the worst cells you can get some more life out of your battery. Yes, IF you can replace the worst cells... Nissan has chosen not to for claims against the USA guarantee, rather the whole pack is replaced. and that's a good thing!
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2016 10:25:23 GMT 11
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Post by jake on Feb 18, 2016 10:46:38 GMT 11
I have just read another reason for replacing the whole pack rather than just individual cells. Apparently mixing cells of different ability isn't a good idea and just causes further degradation batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_repair_a_battery_packI am hoping upgraded battery packs will be available by that time, but by then, we will probably want new cars. Much better EVs will be available by then.
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Post by southernvolt on Feb 25, 2016 19:09:00 GMT 11
Interesting discussion. My usage pattern:
I used to think about it but now days I don't because I kinda lost a bit of interest in something I don't really have control over and there seems to be so much opinion and theorizing out there. It kind of does your head in to ponder on it all.
I drive a minimum of 70kms on weekdays, sometimes once or twice a week I do the max I get which is 120kms and this usually results in a low battery warning. A few times in my ownership I have got to very low batt warning but never turtle. Weekends it would be maybe 50-70kms on Sat and 50 kms Sunday with the occasional zero km day. I have the charge timer set to 80% but a couple of times a week I over-ride it and make it go to 100%. I used the DC fast charger a fair bit at the start of my ownership but not much recently.
So: Mon-Fri 70-120kms, 80% charge on average 3-4 days, 100% the rest. Sat-Sun 50-100kms, 100% charge both days. Including some top up charges after doing 20-50 kms.
My drive is hills and flats and my all time average speed is showing at 39kms/h. I drive mostly in eco and lots of 80km/h roads.
Almost 40,000kms and no bar lost.
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Post by jake on Feb 26, 2016 0:36:06 GMT 11
Interesting discussion. My usage pattern: I used to think about it but now days I don't because I kinda lost a bit of interest in something I don't really have control over and there seems to be so much opinion and theorizing out there. It kind of does your head in to ponder on it all. I drive a minimum of 70kms on weekdays, sometimes once or twice a week I do the max I get which is 120kms and this usually results in a low battery warning. A few times in my ownership I have got to very low batt warning but never turtle. Weekends it would be maybe 50-70kms on Sat and 50 kms Sunday with the occasional zero km day. I have the charge timer set to 80% but a couple of times a week I over-ride it and make it go to 100%. I used the DC fast charger a fair bit at the start of my ownership but not much recently. So: Mon-Fri 70-120kms, 80% charge on average 3-4 days, 100% the rest. Sat-Sun 50-100kms, 100% charge both days. Including some top up charges after doing 20-50 kms. My drive is hills and flats and my all time average speed is showing at 39kms/h. I drive mostly in eco and lots of 80km/h roads. Almost 40,000kms and no bar lost. I think that kind of usage would be very kind to the battery except the times you got the very low battery warning. Running the battery down low certainly won't be good for it. My usage is similar so I hope I get the same sort of results. Unfortunately we can't always choose to not run the battery low. One day a week I have to do a 100% charge and run the battey down to about 20 km left on the GOM. (1 bar)
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Post by hieronymous on Feb 26, 2016 9:36:55 GMT 11
Interesting discussion. My usage pattern: I used to think about it but now days I don't because I kinda lost a bit of interest in something I don't really have control over and there seems to be so much opinion and theorizing out there. It kind of does your head in to ponder on it all. I drive a minimum of 70kms on weekdays, sometimes once or twice a week I do the max I get which is 120kms and this usually results in a low battery warning. A few times in my ownership I have got to very low batt warning but never turtle. I think that kind of usage would be very kind to the battery except the times you got the very low battery warning. Running the battery down low certainly won't be good for it. My usage is similar so I hope I get the same sort of results. Unfortunately we can't always choose to not run the battery low. One day a week I have to do a 100% charge and run the battey down to about 20 km left on the GOM. (1 bar) Makes me laugh - when my Leaf shows 20 km on the GOM I consider that still half full. As southernvolt notes above, there seems to be "so much opinion and theorising out there". Nissan provided LBW and VLBW as a normal part of the daily driving experience, just as it provided 80% and 100% charging, and there is no evidence whatsoever that running the battery down to VLBW won't be good for it. When in doubt read the Leaf Owners Manual, which states on page EV-2, as a caution against battery damage, "Do not leave your vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge)" In a section on page EV-17 on maximising the battery's useful life,Avoid leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge)" This is all that Nissan says about using the Li-ion battery at the lower end of its capacity, and I trust that far more than the "opinion and theorising out there". MY two cents worth is that there are a lot of drivers out there for whom the complexities of motor vehicles are a closed book, and they get nervous about ANY possibility that they may not get home as planned, so they always charge their Leafs to a high level in order to never get down to the dreaded LBW message, and they endlessly extol this approach as "advisable", on forums that they read to allay their fears...
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Post by jake on Feb 26, 2016 22:30:57 GMT 11
Interesting discussion. My usage pattern: I used to think about it but now days I don't because I kinda lost a bit of interest in something I don't really have control over and there seems to be so much opinion and theorizing out there. It kind of does your head in to ponder on it all. I drive a minimum of 70kms on weekdays, sometimes once or twice a week I do the max I get which is 120kms and this usually results in a low battery warning. A few times in my ownership I have got to very low batt warning but never turtle. Weekends it would be maybe 50-70kms on Sat and 50 kms Sunday with the occasional zero km day. I have the charge timer set to 80% but a couple of times a week I over-ride it and make it go to 100%. I used the DC fast charger a fair bit at the start of my ownership but not much recently. So: Mon-Fri 70-120kms, 80% charge on average 3-4 days, 100% the rest. Sat-Sun 50-100kms, 100% charge both days. Including some top up charges after doing 20-50 kms. My drive is hills and flats and my all time average speed is showing at 39kms/h. I drive mostly in eco and lots of 80km/h roads. Almost 40,000kms and no bar lost. I think that kind of usage would be very kind to the battery except the times you got the very low battery warning. Running the battery down low certainly won't be good for it. My usage is similar so I hope I get the same sort of results. Unfortunately we can't always choose to not run the battery low. One day a week I have to do a 100% charge and run the battey down to about 20 km left on the GOM. (1 bar) You are right. The key is not to leave the battery in a low state of charge. Charging it again stops degradation. But the message is try to use the middle third of your battery for long battery life. The Prius doesn't charge very high and doesn't discharge past a third left, effectively only using about a third of the battery's capacity. They designed it that way so it would last 10 years. I know they use Nickel Metal Hydride but Lithium Ion reacts similarly except it has no memory effect. The message is, better not to charge or discharge your battery too much for long life. I don't know if one is worse than the other, therefore is it better on the whole to have your battery on the high side or the low side. I'm guessing better to keep on the low side if best percentage for storage is 40%. So is it better to charge to 80 percent and discharge to 0, or charge to 100 percent and discharge to 20 percent? I have adopted the latter in the knowledge that even at 100 percent the battery ionly really charges to 90% although I believe with the latest firmware upgrade that some.of the battery's capacity has been unlocked. Probably Nissan have prevented the battery from being completely discharged too, but I don't know the percentage.
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Post by jacky on Feb 27, 2016 12:21:15 GMT 11
The battery management system will keep the battery charge level in a safe level. The low battery and very low battery warning are informing the driver they are running out of range rather than warning the driver the battery is at risk.
Given a Tesla roster battery pack can still have 90% of its capacity after 10 years with a temperature controlled BMS, the temperature is critical for maintaining battery capacity.
For our LEAFs, it doesn't have much control in the battery temperature and thus cars in hot climate area having a higher chance of pre-mature degrade in battery capacity.
The LEAF also doesn't have control on the discharge over time. This is why the manual warned us not to leave the car for over 14 days with low charge. The battery pack will continue losing charges and being too low to cause damages.
As southernvolt said, don't worry about the battery, just drive it and enjoy the driving experiences.
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Post by Phoebe on Feb 27, 2016 13:28:03 GMT 11
As southernvolt said, don't worry about the battery, just drive it and enjoy the driving experiences. Been doing that for 3 years and 3 months
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Post by jake on Feb 27, 2016 23:24:30 GMT 11
I think some of you are missing my point. We have to worry about the battery to some degree because it is a major cost of the vehicle and a huge replacement cost, therefore we should be interested in making it last as long as possible. Knowing what causes the battery to degrade helps us to alter our charging habits so that we get the most out of the battery. It can be summarised very easily. Causes of degradation. 1. Cycling (just using it, charging/discharging 2. Heat (caused by anything, could be Fast charge/discharging or environmental. 3. Leaving the battery at 100% or 0%. 3. Age (they will degrade by themselves slowly)
We know the best way to store a battery that is not in use at aprox 40% (this allows for a small natural amount of discharge)
So by all means just drive and enjoy the car. I do very much, but this information can guide us in our charging habits and how we look after the car. Simple things like avoiding parking in the sun on a hot day, Obviously you aren't going to damage your battery if you run it to the low battery warning, but you will if you leave it discharged for any length of time. The longer you leave it the more damage is done. With the charge timers it is easy to not leave it at 100% for very long, however if you ran it to 0% and then used the charging timer, then you are leaving your battery discharged for a length of time. Interestingly the battery research tells us that leaving the battery fully charged is more harmful than having it discharged amd any harm done to a battery by being discharged can be reversed somewhat by charging. I would also say that any degradation by leaving the battery discharged for a small time might not be significant, but all I am saying is that if we know the degradation causes, we can try to avoid them. The fact that Nissan says not to leave our cars at low charge for over 14 days points to the fact that they know leaving the battery at a low level is bad for it. It might not do much damage leaving it overnight with no charge, but shouldn't we avoid it? Remember the Prius never discharges the battery below 30%. You have to ask why? and the answer is for longevity.
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Post by Phoebe on Feb 28, 2016 4:15:18 GMT 11
I do avoid parking in the sun on a hot day, but, other than that I don't worry. I do what suits me and when the battery wears out, it wears out. I'll probably be worn out too, by the time that happens
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Post by jacky on Feb 28, 2016 5:17:06 GMT 11
I think some of you are missing my point. We have to worry about the battery to some degree because it is a major cost of the vehicle and a huge replacement cost, therefore we should be interested in making it last as long as possible. Knowing what causes the battery to degrade helps us to alter our charging habits so that we get the most out of the battery. It can be summarised very easily. Causes of degradation. 1. Cycling (just using it, charging/discharging 2. Heat (caused by anything, could be Fast charge/discharging or environmental. 3. Leaving the battery at 100% or 0%. 3. Age (they will degrade by themselves slowly) We know the best way to store a battery that is not in use at aprox 40% (this allows for a small natural amount of discharge) So by all means just drive and enjoy the car. I do very much, but this information can guide us in our charging habits and how we look after the car. Simple things like avoiding parking in the sun on a hot day, Obviously you aren't going to damage your battery if you run it to the low battery warning, but you will if you leave it discharged for any length of time. The longer you leave it the more damage is done. With the charge timers it is easy to not leave it at 100% for very long, however if you ran it to 0% and then used the charging timer, then you are leaving your battery discharged for a length of time. Interestingly the battery research tells us that leaving the battery fully charged is more harmful than having it discharged amd any harm done to a battery by being discharged can be reversed somewhat by charging. I would also say that any degradation by leaving the battery discharged for a small time might not be significant, but all I am saying is that if we know the degradation causes, we can try to avoid them. The fact that Nissan says not to leave our cars at low charge for over 14 days points to the fact that they know leaving the battery at a low level is bad for it. It might not do much damage leaving it overnight with no charge, but shouldn't we avoid it? Remember the Prius never discharges the battery below 30%. You have to ask why? and the answer is for longevity. First, the BMS will never allow the battery to be charged to it's 100% capacity. Of course, Nissan & Tesla told us not always charge it to "100% usable capacity" (i.e., in fact less than 100% of the battery capacity) may reduce capacity loss but they never meant it will damage the battery. The researches were done with real 100% battery capacity. The self-discharging is slow and its not causing additional damages to the battery (every charge and discharge causes damages in the battery - I don't remember whether it is the cathode or anode). However, if the battery was in very low charge, the voltage of the battery will be too low to charge. The car will not allow us to drive the car to 0% of the real battery capacity but the self-discharge will continue to discharge slowly and thus allow it to stay in that state for more than 14 days is not recommended. There are reports in the Segway community (yeah, I own a Segway) that the first generation of their Li-ion battery (produced by A123) become dead (and need to be replaced) after it was discharged and remain at low charge for a period of time. The community found that the batteries are in fact still okay but refused to accept any charge and it can be revived. Prius never discharges the battery below 30% because of 2 things - it is using NiMH and they don't know enough about NiMH. With the experience of using NiMH with small appliances, people knows NiMH doesn't have memory effect but will die pretty soon with a lot of cycles. With deep discharge cycles, they will die quicker. However, there are not much experiences of NiMH used in Automobiles. There are not much research on NiMH. When you don't know much about the battery, you tend to be conservative and won't do deep discharge. In case of a Prius, it doesn't really matter to not doing deep discharge as it is only used to reduce to loss of energy on braking. It is not the case for Li-ion batteries. There are a lot of researches going on in studying how it works and ages. The battery was used in pure EV for more than 10 years. In fact, Elon Musk said they understand the battery so much that their supercharger knows how much power to put in on different state of charge without damaging it. Bear in mind that it was a common understanding on high power charging and discharging causes more damages on the battery and, in fact, Tesla even told their customers frequent supercharging may reduce their battery life when they announced supercharger, now Tesla tells their customers supercharging is not affect the battery life and they don't have to worry about using superchargers. The advice of not parking under the sun on a hot day isn't necessary as the battery has a high thermo mass and mounted under the car. The change of the temperature in the battery is slow to the air temperature around it. I avoid parking under the sun because of the potential damages to the paint, rubber, plastic, etc like other ICE cars. For the argument of the battery is the most expensive component in the car, the same applies for ICE cars. The engine & the transmission wears and tears on the second it was started and the harder you push the faster it damages. Do ICE drivers think twice before they switch gears (or doing something that causes gears switching)? Do they not drive the car due to the worries the explosions may damage the engine? I understand that your suggestions were to keep the car in good conditions as long as possible. However, I don't see we have more to worry more on the LEAF compare with owners of an ICE. We also need to avoid giving other people the false impression that EVs requires owners to be more caution to use than an ICE. The fact is that EVs are more robust than ICEs. The car won't suck in water and give up when there was a flood; don't need to change oil every a few months or a year; motors last "forever" unlike ICE start to breakdown after 7 years; etc.
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