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Post by JohnChidgey on Jun 11, 2016 22:33:39 GMT 11
I've been making a lot of enquiries and whilst minor details change I can at least tell anyone that's interested that I've been told that the last 2012 Nissan Leaf (new) has been sold this week just gone. NZ sold out two months ago. So that's it until the next model Nissan chooses to bring into Oz.
I understand they won't be bringing the current model (2016) in, but instead will wait for the 2017 model, which isn't going to be released here until sometime next year. When that will happen varies depending on who you ask and I suspect they don't know for sure. I've heard everything from Q1 to Q3 2017.
So far as pricing goes I've also heard a wide range and it's so wide it's not worth mentioning all of them, but the cheapest I was told was $55k, but most were a bit more approaching the estimated Tesla Model 3 pricing levels.
So that's it. Second hand Leaf or nothing until maybe mid next year and even then, they won't be cheap.
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Post by Feng on Jun 12, 2016 0:25:39 GMT 11
Thanks John, that's really interesting, I've been wondering for ages when the day will come. They must be happy to see the last of the old shipment. Let's hope they make a better effort with the next lot!
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Post by lesmando24 on Jun 12, 2016 8:52:06 GMT 11
I won't be buying. If they offer a replacement battery pack, I will buy one as I am happy with my current leaf. Nissan horrid service has turned me off their products.
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Post by EVangelist on Jun 13, 2016 0:32:45 GMT 11
I too have been wondering when this day would come - nearly four years to sell about 750 cars?
Nissan's next move will be fascinating. Although I'm committed to Tesla Model 3 (well, not literally committed, I could cancel and get my money back, but I don't want two of the same car in my garage) I'll be very interested in what the 2017 Leaf specs will be.
Nissan is absolutely right to wait for next year's model, but they'll need to do a much better sales job to not have deadweight stock hanging around for years. Tesla really has changed the game and lifted expectations - reportedly 7000 Model 3 reservations have been made in Australia. You'd have to think that alone will dent appetite for the next Leaf.
If the new Leaf doesn't have 300+ km range, more appealing looks, newer appointments and "wow" factors, it will need to be substantially cheaper than the Model 3 to have any chance - by that I mean $20k or more cheaper.
Interesting times ahead!
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Post by stewartm on Jun 13, 2016 0:44:41 GMT 11
I won't be buying. If they offer a replacement battery pack, I will buy one as I am happy with my current leaf. Nissan horrid service has turned me off their products. Amen to that Les. Had enough of being treated like a leper by the service agents. They also wrote us off in April saying our warranty was finished, when we bought the car in October three years back. From sales people who said to our face, 'you must have rocks in your head' when we asked about the leaf, to service agents who said, 'we really get nothing out if servicing a leaf' when trying to justify 60% increase above the set price service, we would never go back. With the battery degradation we asked about support for getting the leaf the 100+km to them, another classic answer was, not our problem that you bought a car with no range. As such I purchased an electronic service manual which we gave to our local ultra tune guy. He has serviced our fuel swilling SUV(we need it for towing) for 6 years with brilliant support. After talking with other service guys in the States, he has agreed to carry out standard yearly servicing and any other work the leaf needs. I still like the leaf, have I bought one in France, service and support here has been great. I will also when needed get the pack replaced, even if it's gets done by a third a party. Interesting talking with the French service guy, said the Tekna 30kw and 24kw were the same physically with the same charger etc, only difference was the software? Maybe just his belief, but even an after market repack to 30 kW I would pay for. |
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Post by jacky on Jun 13, 2016 9:16:16 GMT 11
I too have been wondering when this day would come - nearly four years to sell about 750 cars? Nissan's next move will be fascinating. Although I'm committed to Tesla Model 3 (well, not literally committed, I could cancel and get my money back, but I don't want two of the same car in my garage) I'll be very interested in what the 2017 Leaf specs will be. Nissan is absolutely right to wait for next year's model, but they'll need to do a much better sales job to not have deadweight stock hanging around for years. Tesla really has changed the game and lifted expectations - reportedly 7000 Model 3 reservations have been made in Australia. You'd have to think that alone will dent appetite for the next Leaf. If the new Leaf doesn't have 300+ km range, more appealing looks, newer appointments and "wow" factors, it will need to be substantially cheaper than the Model 3 to have any chance - by that I mean $20k or more cheaper. Interesting times ahead! Nissan also needs... 1. wide coverage and reliable fast charging network (like Tesla do) 2. Very good (comparable with Tesla's; or as good as Nissan France, US, Japan) after sales support and services - In here, we cannot get a battery report even after complained to Nissan Australia HQ. |
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craggles
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 18 
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by craggles on Jun 13, 2016 16:01:22 GMT 11
Just placed a deposit on a LEAF at the Moorooka sales yard. The salesman, John Herrett, told me that I had bought the last *new* LEAF in Australia.
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Post by Phoebe on Jun 13, 2016 16:22:28 GMT 11
Just placed a deposit on a LEAF at the Moorooka sales yard. The salesman, John Herrett, told me that I had bought the last *new* LEAF in Australia. That's odd, top of this page is a claim last 2012 LEAF was sold last week. Seems to be more than one "last new 2012 LEAF"  Congratulations Craggles, enjoy your LEAF, whether or not it is actually the last one or not. |
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Post by Feng on Jun 14, 2016 16:06:42 GMT 11
Just placed a deposit on a LEAF at the Moorooka sales yard. The salesman, John Herrett, told me that I had bought the last *new* LEAF in Australia. Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the forum. Pity you aren't in the same city as Jim Hare who owns this forum. Jim was the first private owner of the LEAF in Australia, it would have been neat to have both of you at a meet. Now waiting for Nissan to quietly remove the LEAF from their website. It feels like the end of an era but without fanfare. |
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Post by datsunleaf on Jun 14, 2016 21:30:57 GMT 11
Quite sad really
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Post by hieronymous on Jun 14, 2016 22:01:14 GMT 11
I've been making a lot of enquiries and whilst minor details change I can at least tell anyone that's interested that I've been told that the last 2012 Nissan Leaf (new) has been sold this week just gone. NZ sold out two months ago. So that's it until the next model Nissan chooses to bring into Oz. I understand they won't be bringing the current model (2016) in, but instead will wait for the 2017 model, which isn't going to be released here until sometime next year. When that will happen varies depending on who you ask and I suspect they don't know for sure. I've heard everything from Q1 to Q3 2017. So far as pricing goes I've also heard a wide range and it's so wide it's not worth mentioning all of them, but the cheapest I was told was $55k, but most were a bit more approaching the estimated Tesla Model 3 pricing levels. So that's it. Second hand Leaf or nothing until maybe mid next year and even then, they won't be cheap. A sad state of affairs for aspiring EV owners in Australia  . The market needs a steady supply to raise public consciousness to the point where sales start to accelerate despite premium pricing, but it looks like the Aussie tap is being turned off. You might be interested in what is happening on our side of the Ditch. Kiwis are not hamstrung by restrictive import regulations for used vehicles; with a nod to safety features, vehicles with manufacture newer that 2006 or so are allowed entry. This link is from NZ Vehicles Fleet Statistics up to May this year. Note the chart for EV Models Registered on p.4. There are now more than 500 Leafs out of a total of over 1300 EV's registered. Used Leafs are advertised at prices anywhere from $15,000 to $40,000, the latter being English Tekna's. Mostly they are Japanese domestic, under $30,000, plenty of 11-bar 2011-2012 Gen 1's nearer $20,000. I know of one importer who will bring in the latest English models with 6.6KWh chargers, and looking to 30KWh battery models, delivery mileage only, and UK government subsidies, pricing about $46-48K net. As you can see from the link, interest and sales are accelerating. Note: the NZ$ is currently buying about AU 95c. There is, however, nothing whatever from Nissan NZ about any future sales of new Gen 2 Leafs in this country. Fortunately, most Nissan dealers seem prepared to service Leafs from any source, and I have just seen a couple of posts confirming a (named) Nissan dealer who will import and replace a Leaf battery, or replace defective cells. There has also been a surge in installations of quick chargers, so no doom and gloom over here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 8:29:35 GMT 11
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Post by EVangelist on Jun 15, 2016 9:31:51 GMT 11
A sad state of affairs for aspiring EV owners in Australia . The market needs a steady supply to raise public consciousness to the point where sales start to accelerate despite premium pricing, but it looks like the Aussie tap is being turned off. It's not quite that dire - Nissan is but one manufacturer. Certainly the lack of any federal government incentives whatsoever for owning EVs doesn't help - even when the new Leaf price was slashed to $40k it was still competing with cars about the same size half that price or less. So BEVs and PHEVs here have to bear the full frontal force of unadulterated market forces to survive. Australia is relatively unusual in that regard. Even in China there are incentives for buying EVs!  With the (temporary?) demise of the Leaf, it is now up to Tesla, BMW and others to fill the void. As per my previous post, reportedly 7000 Tesla Model 3's have been reserved in Australia - which if translates to deliveries, would increase the number of BEVs on Australian roads by a factor of five in one go. There are now already more Tesla Model S's on Australian roads than Leafs, and Tesla is slowly expanding its Supercharger network along the east coast highway. Allegedly Melbourne to Brisbane will be doable by year's end. At a Tesla meet in Bowral in January, 37 Teslas turned up! That's way more than we ever managed with the Leaf! Anyway, the 2017 Leaf will be Gen 3 not Gen 2. Gen 2 was never sold here and I have no idea if anyone imported one. Nissan and other manufacturers need to be careful, otherwise Tesla will "Apple" them. Tesla is the highly desirable "cool" brand that could very quickly eat the lunch of conventional carmakers. If they effectively vacate the playing field and Tesla has it all to themselves, the conventional carmakers could find themselves on a very steep and slippery slope to bankruptcy. It took Apple 8 only years to wipe out what was the world's #1 mobile phone company Nokia. |
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Post by hieronymous on Jun 15, 2016 16:53:37 GMT 11
A sad state of affairs for aspiring EV owners in Australia . The market needs a steady supply to raise public consciousness to the point where sales start to accelerate despite premium pricing, but it looks like the Aussie tap is being turned off. It's not quite that dire - Nissan is but one manufacturer. Certainly the lack of any federal government incentives whatsoever for owning EVs doesn't help - even when the new Leaf price was slashed to $40k it was still competing with cars about the same size half that price or less. So BEVs and PHEVs here have to bear the full frontal force of unadulterated market forces to survive. Australia is relatively unusual in that regard. Even in China there are incentives for buying EVs! With the (temporary?) demise of the Leaf, it is now up to Tesla, BMW and others to fill the void. As per my previous post, reportedly 7000 Tesla Model 3's have been reserved in Australia - which if translates to deliveries, would increase the number of BEVs on Australian roads by a factor of five in one go. There are now already more Tesla Model S's on Australian roads than Leafs, and Tesla is slowly expanding its Supercharger network along the east coast highway. Allegedly Melbourne to Brisbane will be doable by year's end. At a Tesla meet in Bowral in January, 37 Teslas turned up! That's way more than we ever managed with the Leaf! Anyway, the 2017 Leaf will be Gen 3 not Gen 2. Gen 2 was never sold here and I have no idea if anyone imported one. Nissan and other manufacturers need to be careful, otherwise Tesla will "Apple" them. Tesla is the highly desirable "cool" brand that could very quickly eat the lunch of conventional carmakers. If they effectively vacate the playing field and Tesla has it all to themselves, the conventional carmakers could find themselves on a very steep and slippery slope to bankruptcy. It took Apple 8 only years to wipe out what was the world's #1 mobile phone company Nokia. Public awareness is one thing, a sales momentum is quite another. Although the discounted Leaf still wasn't cheap at $40K, it was within reach of anyone in the market for a new family-sized saloon. Without availability, and with alternatives all in a niche price range, AND without a generous supply of used imports, I don't see any wide-spread take-up for several years; only a few can afford a Tesla, and it's anyone's guess what a new Leaf will eventually cost anyway. In contrast, over here new hybrids are 20% cheaper than last year; how many buyers will pay NZ$65-85K for a new Outlander PHEV or BMW i3-REx, when they can buy a Gen4 Prius or a Camry Hybrid for NZ$47K? At least for now, I don't think Toyota has got it wrong with hybrids, and good availability of used imports, hybrids or EV's, keeps our mainstream market chugging along nicely... There have been quite a lot of "Gen2" Leaf imports sold here, 2013-2015 models, mostly Japanese domestic. But the use of "Gen2" to commonly describe them seems to be a local phenomenon - on MNL the term "Gen 1.5" has often been used to reflect 2013-2016 upgrades to the original Gen1, and all on-line columns/blogs I have read recently speculating about the expected 2017-2018 new model refer consistently to that as Gen 2, not Gen 3. As for Tesla, it's a high stakes game that Elon Musk is playing, and only time will tell whether his vision will succeed - he doesn't have the near-bottomless resources of the major players. A market catastrophe such as an global oil or financial crisis could easily sink Tesla without trace...! |
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Post by JohnChidgey on Jun 15, 2016 18:31:43 GMT 11
I've checked with several Importers. In Australia the Leaf isn't (and can't be) on the SEVS list. So that's not an option...alas. |
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Post by JohnChidgey on Jun 15, 2016 18:40:46 GMT 11
...I have just seen a couple of posts confirming a (named) Nissan dealer who will import and replace a Leaf battery, or replace defective cells... I'm curious is there's anyone is Australia that will do that? |
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Post by EVangelist on Jun 15, 2016 19:26:38 GMT 11
Public awareness is one thing, a sales momentum is quite another. Although the discounted Leaf still wasn't cheap at $40K, it was within reach of anyone in the market for a new family-sized saloon. Without availability, and with alternatives all in a niche price range, AND without a generous supply of used imports, I don't see any wide-spread take-up for several years; only a few can afford a Tesla, and it's anyone's guess what a new Leaf will eventually cost anyway. I think 7000 Tesla Model 3 reservations here proves that hypothesis wrong. 7000 people (more than FIVE TIMES the total number of EVs currently on the road - I still can't get my head around that!!) were prepared to put down A$1500 for a car many had not even seen, had no advertising, will cost around 50% more than the Leaf, and that people will have to wait 2 years for. That is an earthquake for the conventional carmaking industry. It doesn't just shake up the car market, it turns it on its head and kicks it out the door with utter contempt. Tesla is now years ahead of the competition, and any auto CEO who is not in a state of rising panic and having nightmares about their business being destroyed is in sheer denial. We saw it with Nokia (who refused to believe Apple was a threat until it was waaaaay too late), we saw it with Blockbuster (who famously turned down an offer to buy Netflix), and we could easily see it with GM (who thinks that making 30,000 Bolt EVs for the global market will be a fantastic achievement). The Leaf is still the world's highest selling BEV, a position achieved over 4 years, and congratulations to Nissan for that. But unless Nissan do something extraordinary, in early 2018 Tesla will overtake that in a matter of months. That is simply incredible. In contrast, over here new hybrids are 20% cheaper than last year; how many buyers will pay NZ$65-85K for a new Outlander PHEV or BMW i3-REx, when they can buy a Gen4 Prius or a Camry Hybrid for NZ$47K? At least for now, I don't think Toyota has got it wrong with hybrids, and good availability of used imports, hybrids or EV's, keeps our mainstream market chugging along nicely... I used to think hybrids were a good way of managing the transition to full EVs, but now not so much, because BEVs will eat them too. Hybrids are mechanically very complex, you lose heaps of interior space because there are two engines to fit in the form factor instead of one, and whichever engine is not being used at a given instant to drive the car is pure dead weight and dead space. BEVs have beautiful simplicity and technological superiority in comparison, and the economics of that will ultimately win. It might take 5 to 10 years, but I now think the die is cast. By not having a legacy car business, Tesla can do what other car makers simply cannot do. As for Tesla, it's a high stakes game that Elon Musk is playing, and only time will tell whether his vision will succeed - he doesn't have the near-bottomless resources of the major players. A market catastrophe such as an global oil or financial crisis could easily sink Tesla without trace...! Yes that could happen... but if they pull the Model 3 off, it is game over the the ICE. Tesla will be the Apple of the car world, and the scraps will be fought over by whichever carmakers are courageous enough to knife their existing ICE businesses and move wholeheartedly into BEVs. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 8:04:23 GMT 11
Spooky
Just saw ad for Steve Wozniak at the top of this forum
August
Thinkinc.org.au
Evening with Steve
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 8:27:28 GMT 11
Is there a reason that the leaf can't be on sevs?
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Post by duncan on Jun 16, 2016 20:50:04 GMT 11
Yes, it is imported by the manufacturer so it is not eligible under SEVS (monopoly rules). In theory if you can find a brand new model (under 500klm) from before Nissan Oz brought them in you could spend a few hundred thousand getting it on the list to import. But more importantly, if the evil refugee imprisoning and torturing liberals get in again (likely), the import rules will be relaxed to allow brand new cars (under 12 months) to be imported without restriction so current LEAFs will be on the menu along with a whole bunch of other EVs. More details here for example prestigemotorsport.com.au/faqs/vehicle-import-regulation-changes/Of course some will be worried about manufacturer support in case of warranty issues....but as a 3 year LEAF owner I am pretty certain the warranty was worth very little for the premium I had to pay Nissan Oz. I've imported 5 cars under SEVs or pre 1988 rules in the last 10 years and have been very happy with the saving and lack of trouble |
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Post by chuq on Nov 13, 2016 18:54:01 GMT 11
Many have probably seen the announcement (internationally) of the 2017 Nissan Leaf - 30 kWh edition only. electrek.co/2016/11/10/nissan-2017-leaf-trim-details-30-kwh-battery-range/There have been rumours of a 40 or 60 kWh pack coming, but no luck. In any case, I hope the 30 kWh one will be available here. AEVA Tasmania was recently at an expo where people were asking us where we could get one - and we sadly couldn't give a definite answer. |
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Post by 4wardthinking on Nov 14, 2016 9:57:44 GMT 11
Welcome to Australia!.
43 countries, and we're unique.
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Post by jake on Nov 14, 2016 22:59:37 GMT 11
So it turns out that the 2017 Leaf is still a Gen 2. Looks like Tesla may become the new leader in EV sales. At least we can buy a Tesla in Australia. No word from Nissan yet about selling any future models here.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Nov 15, 2016 7:20:31 GMT 11
No shock there.
Given the Australian Fiddling Governments idea of adding the cash they'd miss from EV owners compared with the tax from petrol, there's no wonder Nissan have little interest.
The Tesla's are massively overpriced here when compared to the rest of the world, but it appears that Nissan could not sell the LEAF for the price the AFG 'suggested', no one would pay that.
Tesla at almost $260k for a car that you can buy for sub-$100k elsewhere, are having a massive 'value added price' to satisfy AFG's 'suggested' price.(yep, seen the receipt, & driven it)
Nissan are in the business of profit, just like the rest.
If I were Nissan, I would walk away too. Added to that, the ability to maintain them is limited. We are still teaching internal combustion technology to the gen-entitled to's.
A manufacturer cannot afford to subsidise any country, and under-value their product, so they can sell here.
Now the sad thing is only the well-off will be car owners in the near future, and where it counts cannot.... but then again, public cattle trucks(transport) are on the horizon.
Blame the AFG in reality. Unless the Asian cheap EV market can flood AU with their offerings!.
High-undies have an interpretation... of someone's invention. Yukk. Seemingly the cattle truck looks appealing.
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Post by jake on Nov 16, 2016 19:44:57 GMT 11
Actually the Hyundai Ioniq full electric may get here and be decent value for money. There is a surprising review on Fully Charged where he tries to put the car in cruise control and it begins to steer itself, so it has a limited autonomous ability. m.youtube.com/watch?v=0kZgYdKmIKA# |
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Post by 4wardthinking on Nov 17, 2016 7:45:18 GMT 11
Hi undies lack quality for me.
Even reading their narrative made me shudder a little.
My discoveries noted cheaper construction. If the batteries are anything like offerings of the past, then a decent warranty would be mandatory.
This manufacturer imo rides on the technology of those that took time to create, and makes a cut-price copy.
Remember this is my take, and not necessarily what others may think.
Nice to see other offerings on the market though. Maybe given their investment in AU, this trabant-ish version is what we may be allowed.
I'll stick to known quality, without the propaganda machines promises.
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Post by jcan on Nov 17, 2016 18:55:12 GMT 11
As you mentioned earlier, to get that kind of price differential of a Tesla S at $260,00 VS $100,000 elsewhere, it's the Australian Governments fault. It's just taxing Tesla's and all expensive cars like crazy. In a nutshell, it's goevernments fault for the crazy price differentials but I guess it's "kinda fair"....
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Congratulations Craggles, enjoy your LEAF, whether or not it is actually the last one or not.
. The market needs a steady supply to raise public consciousness to the point where sales start to accelerate despite premium pricing, but it looks like the Aussie tap is being turned off.
