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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 22, 2013 22:39:39 GMT 11
Okay, I'm now officially worried about our range.  Was hoping it was related to flabby tyres but have them back at 35psi but we are still only getting 95-100kms from an 80% charge, and maybe 130 from 100%. This is down 10-20%. We're due for a service so hopefully we can get some info about what's going on. |
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 22, 2013 23:28:05 GMT 11
Hopefully the service will sort it out. Do let us know. I guess since you got your LEAF before any of the rest of us, you may get problems before any of the rest of us - we can learn by your experience, but I sincerely hope this turns out to be a non-problem.
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Post by duncan on Mar 23, 2013 7:58:47 GMT 11
Hey Jim, how are you tracking the range? I get the impression from the US forums that the DTE meter has shown to be a very poor indicator, they are using battery level readings called GIDs instead.
My guess is I also don't get anything like what it shows on the DTE meter, but what I am getting is more than sufficient for how I use the car day to day (except a few cloes calls)
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 23, 2013 10:12:54 GMT 11
Will do Phoebe! Only 7,000KMs so it's not overuse!
Duncan, yeah, I know it's all subjective on the remaining gauge. Basically I run the car down to about 20KMs available so I get a pretty good indication of the overall milage I'm getting per charge.
I know I was getting more in the first few months than now. Same run down back then got us 115KMs from 80% and 150KMs from 100%.
Most people seem to have the opposite, where the LEAF gains range after it's broken in.
A few things might be contributing. We often take very short trips, like 1KM and shut the car down. Don't know how the boot process affects battery, maybe it's a huge draw and the shear number of power cycles per charge has a measurable effect.
Anyway, it could just be that the LEAF has honed into our driving habits and we caused the drop.
By habits I don't mean poor ECO driving. We drive the car extremely well and always have the efficiency metre pegged to good. More the short trips and hills near our house.
Anyway, we'll see!
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 23, 2013 10:57:31 GMT 11
Talking of the boot process, I have been noticing that my range when I turn the power on is between one and four less than it was when I last turned the power off. I know the range meter is more a 'guessometer' than anything else but there may be some significance in that. What matters is how many kms you can actually drive on a charge.
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Post by leafboi on Mar 23, 2013 16:24:19 GMT 11
It's fitting that this topic just came up because I was feeling the same. I've had the car 3 months now and it's almost at 7000km.
When I first got it I know I was like 'ok now I'll drive conservatively to increase range'.
This clearly didn't last long and I slowly slipped back into my regular driving habits.
I was doing mostly 5kms under the limit and achieving great range per charge.
But slowly as my old habits returned I found myself over the limit by 5 to 10kms.
Without thinking it was my driving habits that was reducing my range.
Today I gave myself plenty of time to go to work so I could go back to how I drove in the first few weeks to see if it was really my range that had decreased or my driving style.
Well I'm quite happy to report my LEAF gave me the same sort of range figures I saw in my first few weeks. So nothing to worry about.
I think driving style is a major factor to our range. Even if we 'feel' we haven't changed the way we drive I'm sure some 'old' petrol habits have crept back in.
Next time you do your regular drive try babying the car like I'm sure we all did the first few weeks. You might be surprised with the results.
I got 32kms from my top 3 bars on an 80% charge today. 138km rr to start, 104km rr at finish, 37km trip, no AC. With 19kms of that on the freeway. Surprises can happen!
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 23, 2013 16:40:51 GMT 11
Yeah, it's hard for us since I'm not the only driver. I'm happy to forgo air con and Eco drive extremely well. I've been extra conservative lately, while trying to get my head around the situation.
Unfortunately my wife doesn't put in the same care so it's not easy to get a real feel for reality.
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 23, 2013 19:18:13 GMT 11
Jim, you need to get your LEAF serviced as soon as possible to restore your peace of mind so you can enjoy your LEAF again. Gosh, I'm now a full member of this forum ;D
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 23, 2013 22:52:44 GMT 11
Yeah, I definitely will. Probably nothing, ambiguous at best.
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Post by Brian on Mar 24, 2013 22:26:02 GMT 11
Ditto, Jim - the concept of saving energy ( or money ) is totally foreign to my wife  Last night was a good example. Our destination was 40 kms away. I drove there ( mostly carefully) and avoided freeways and higher speed roads. She drove home, but wanted the fastest route, using freeways. The energy consumed was significantly different ( sorry, can't quote figures), whilst the difference in trip time was only a few minutes. leafboi is right . . . it is all too easy to slip back into " open the taps " mode.  I can readily identify with his experience. ;D I don't want to ' officaially worry ' you further, Jim, but I would be suspecting a cell is below par. |
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 25, 2013 9:12:33 GMT 11
Thanks Brian. Yeah, that's my feeling as well. Might try to get it in this week and figure out what's happening.
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 25, 2013 20:45:19 GMT 11
Booked in for Thursday morning. We shall see!
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 25, 2013 20:55:51 GMT 11
You should feel better already, Jim, even if you LEAF isn't |
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Post by David on Mar 26, 2013 22:20:56 GMT 11
I just got back from 2 weeks away with no internet access, heaven. I'd forgotten how good the Leaf was to drive (and I was driving a Merc where I was, albeit a 2003 model). I have no doubt that my range has dropped about 10% and that is based on measured kms, not on the estimator. As many of you will recall, I have already had my 10,000km service (now at 11500km). It came back with 5 stars for all categories. that said, I am not worried, I understand that loss of range is about 20% in the first 5 years, but it is not linear, often dropping fairly quickly then stabilising for long periods. I have always assumed that within 5 years, there will be some major breakthrough in battery technology and range will be a thing of the past. If that is not the case, we will remain a small group of enthusiasts I suspect
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 27, 2013 13:44:15 GMT 11
Hi David. I've kind of been thinking the same thing, though felt 10% in the first year seemed like a lot. But I like your description of non-linear loss and stabilisation.
It hasn't really affected us as we can still go plenty far on a charge, we just might charge to 100% a bit more often when we have heavy driving days.
Thanks for the post, it's actually very reassuring!
Jim
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Post by David on Mar 27, 2013 21:29:22 GMT 11
Glad to be of reassurance. I will be interested to see your service report though. You may recall, I have been charging to 100% pretty much every day. I certainly have not 'molly coddled' the batteries. Time will tell whether this is wise or not, but unless EV's can stand up to real world use, their use will be limited. I don't believe that will be the case. Happy motoring!
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 27, 2013 21:58:42 GMT 11
Had a good chat with my dealer Jayson. His opinion is it's probably an anomaly, which certainly isn't out of the question.
Our habit has been to keep it in the 20%-80% range most of the time, charging to 100% maybe twice a month. That makes it tricky to really know.
At some point I'll do a proper test, charging to 100% constantly, running it down to 5KMs and repeating. After two or three of these we should know what it's doing pretty conclusively.
I'll let you know what the battery test results are Thursday evening after the service.
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Post by bobherbert on Mar 28, 2013 12:58:43 GMT 11
Hello Jim,I've had my LEAF for 6 months but i must have about the lowest milage of anyone so far.
Most of my trips average out at about 50 kms.My maths are not the best but on checking my last
drive I find that the "GUESS OMETER"ACTUALLY AGREES with milage covered.Hope you can see my JPGS./Users/robertwilliamherbert/Desktop/IMG_1047.JPG/Users/robertwilliamherbert/Desktop/IMG_1051.JPG
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 28, 2013 13:35:01 GMT 11
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 28, 2013 17:33:05 GMT 11
Hi All, Okay, got the report and it's totally glowing. Like perfect condition. So whether the perceived drop is just me going crazy, or if it has always been the range we got from the start and I'm just more aware of it now, I'm not sure. I'll keep my eye on it.  |
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Post by David on Mar 28, 2013 17:46:35 GMT 11
Hi Jim
The relief is palpable in your post. I couldn't help but notice the number '82' on the left hand image under 'battery capacity status'. It is the same number I got on my report (see entry under how many Kms have you driven). There was debate as to whether this was miles, but the fact we both got the same number makes you wonder if it is just a graphic with no meaning for that particular car. It will be interesting to see our collective experience as time goes on
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 28, 2013 17:54:12 GMT 11
Glad everything is in tip top order, Jim. Wish they'd get rid of that 82 range on the form. We aren't the only country that has kms. It seems that what matters is you have all 12 bars after doing a full charge. Don't think I'll panic until I have less than 12 bars after a full charge is just completed. Think that's a better measure than the range.
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 28, 2013 17:54:25 GMT 11
Thanks David.
Yeah, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that 82 represents MILES in the US LEAF, and has nothing to do with our actual reports.
When I was talking to Jayson (my dealer) last night, he was shocked at the very thought that we might have lost actual capacity this soon.
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 28, 2013 17:55:51 GMT 11
Oh, and for those interested in the cost of servicing, it was $88, where a 10,000km service on a petrol car would probably be $300-$400.
And for that they even washed/vacuumed the LEAF and charged it full! Plus Jayson came to the house to pick up the LEAF and left a loaner car with us, then dropped it back afterwards.
Can't really ask for better service than that! ;-)
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Post by Brian on Mar 29, 2013 1:54:40 GMT 11
First off, I am no sparkie.
But the problem that I see is that the ' Battery Status Indicator ' would appear to be measuring ( high ) volts. And volts are not a true indicator of the ' grunt ' / energy in the batteries.
By way of example, take two ordinary car 12v lead-acid batteries. Both may read 12v on a multi-meter, and appear fine and equal. But whilst one will start the car, the other won't even turn over the engine.
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Post by leafboi on Mar 29, 2013 8:58:55 GMT 11
Hey Jim!
Glad you have been put at ease.
I'm interested to know who your dealer is..?
I received a 'fixed price servicing', schedual from my dealer, Blackburn Nissan, here in Vic and the first service is listed at $155. So for you to get it at almost half that it great. Hopefully I can too!
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 29, 2013 12:49:32 GMT 11
Hey Leafboi,
Jayson Niue from Steve Jarvin Motors. They've treated me like gold since the start. Jayson really knows his stuff and keeps right up to date on everything Leaf related.
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Post by Jim Hare on Mar 29, 2013 12:53:44 GMT 11
Hi Brian,
Yeah, I don't rely on the guess-o-metre.
But what doesn't like is reality, at least I don't think it does...
What I have done since the start is reset the trip odometre after a recharge, and once in a while run it right down to see just how far we can actually go on a charge.
It's that number that I believe has decreased, but don't have definitive figures from the early days.
I'll keep my eye on it in the cooler months to see if it goes back up. We don't use AC heavily or constantly, but it may be swaying the results.
Anyway, Nissan say the Leaf still has full capacity and is in great shape, so I'll see what happens from here.
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Post by Phoebe on Mar 29, 2013 17:19:34 GMT 11
Yes, Jim, I think putting the trip meter back to zero on every recharge is the only way to get any idea how the batteries are going. I have always done that but today was the first time I ran the range right down to zero,
(but didn't wait for the turtle) and my trip meter read 162.3 kms so I guess my batteries aren't in too bad shape, even though that was all done in ECO, at low speed, with aircon off.
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Post by Brian on Mar 30, 2013 0:06:40 GMT 11
Phoebe, that mirrors my belief of what is a realistic range under the conditions you describe.
I would like more details on just how they do their battery diagnostics during a service.
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I can readily identify with his experience. ;D
