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Post by markrmarkr on Aug 6, 2013 16:20:21 GMT 11
What a load of crap! For that argument to work they need to factor in the energy it takes to drill the oil, refine it, transport it across the world, truck it to my local station and running the station. Thanks for taking a step backwards instead of forwards! Besides, most of us power our cars from our own solar panels. PLUS, even if today this is the case, we need to move everyone's thinking forward as we can solve these problems over time, but the solution is NOT petrol cars. Come on people, just think for a moment! Crap is an understatement. Have you guys seen the attached image? Incidentally 30miles per gallon is 7.8 litres per 100 km. So the commodore would have to do better than this before we can start counting electricity used in other parts of the fuel distribution process. Some Journo's are just mouth pieces for the last person they talked to. It's pathetic. Attachments:
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Post by markrmarkr on Aug 6, 2013 16:34:39 GMT 11
Incidentally I've seen this figure of 7.5 kWh to refine one US gallon of oil independently verified.
And yes I do have a solar array on my roof ;D
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Post by duncan on Aug 6, 2013 22:39:51 GMT 11
well actually the most offensive part for me was that they were basing it on the brown coal that they choose to burn to create electricity....they are the problem not the solution. Also, as I recently posted elsewhere they charge a fixed margin, higher than the base price, for renewable/green energy....why not charge it's actual cost (which will fall over time) rather than fix it to their current product? Clearly the want the status quo to continue, and I don't mean that coles ad.
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Post by Jim Hare on Aug 7, 2013 8:49:22 GMT 11
If the fixed margin is to increase investment in additional green energy or research then I'm okay with it.
Since it's less efficient and more expensive, it's going to be an uphill battle for a while yet, just like EVs.
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marty
Half Charge
I like the idea of free transport....
Posts: 68
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Post by marty on Aug 8, 2013 14:56:24 GMT 11
Hi all,
probably a newbie question, but is it worth forking out the extra for said charger? I gather charging at 15 or 17 A would be quicker, yes?
By how much, though and does it affect the longevity of the battery pack? (as in the higher Amps you pump into it the more it hurts it?)
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Post by Jim Hare on Aug 8, 2013 15:38:52 GMT 11
Hey Marty,
Depends on when you charge. If you charge overnight, like I do, it wouldn't make a difference which you use as there is plenty of time. If you are charging multiple times during the day, then the bigger the better.
I have an Origin charger and love the quality of build and convenience. Phoebe just uses the 10amp charger that comes in the boot of the LEAF and has never had a problem.
I can charge my entire car in about 6 hours, but since I don't usually need the car at 5am, it doesn't really matter!
Plus, most of the time the car isn't near empty and is just being topped up.
So plenty of options, mainly up to your habits and comfort level.
My understanding is nothing, other than fast charging, makes a measurable difference so base it on cost, use and convenience.
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Post by Phoebe on Aug 8, 2013 15:58:10 GMT 11
Marty. the 10 amp charger that comes with the LEAF has a 15 amp plug on it. I have had a 15amp dedicated line installed which that plug fits in (only cost about $200 to instal so much cheaper than Origin or anyone else). It takes 8 hours for a full charge from empty - I organise myself so I have time for that. You can get a gaget, one is made by Amfibian, that allows you to plug into a normal 10amp power point. That is risky as the LEAF draws 9.7 amps so you can't use it safely if anything else is plugged into the same circuit. Duncan used it in a holiday house so it can be done if you make sure nothing else is plugged in to that circuit while you are charging.
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Post by Brian on Aug 11, 2013 2:47:19 GMT 11
Hi Marty
We got a Level 2 charger for the convenience of quicker charging, and not getting ' caught out '. In practice, most of the time we would have been O.K. with the 10 Amp EVSE ' back pack '.
I have never measured it, but believe the Level 2 should take the batteries from empty to full in around five and half hours, as opposed to 8 with the EVSE. We normally only charge to 80%, and that would probably be around four hours.
I have heard that there is a LEAF that has done over 200,000kms, has always been fast charged from a Level 3 / half hour to 80% charge, and has no discernible loss of battery capacity, so I am confident Level 2 won't do any harm.
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Post by markrmarkr on Aug 26, 2013 11:21:39 GMT 11
Finally installed the E-Station charge point on the weekend. Cost was $1790 including delivery. It works fine. here is a Pic Attachments:
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Post by leafboi on Aug 26, 2013 14:44:25 GMT 11
Very nice instal, at a great price too!
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Post by stewartm on Aug 26, 2013 23:30:38 GMT 11
Just my experience, I used the clipper creek 15 amp unit. Cost £250 around $430 from the UK. Sparkie was around $200 for 15/20 amp socket connected to off peak. I also like the fact that the CC unit is light and portable. I.e. I can use a van park 15amp power outlet for charging in 6 hours rather than 8
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Post by stewartm on Aug 26, 2013 23:31:07 GMT 11
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Post by markrmarkr on Aug 27, 2013 8:28:29 GMT 11
Just my experience, I used the clipper creek 15 amp unit. Cost £250 around $430 from the UK. Sparkie was around $200 for 15/20 amp socket connected to off peak. I also like the fact that the CC unit is light and portable. I.e. I can use a van park 15amp power outlet for charging in 6 hours rather than 8 Stu, Gotta love the price of that unit. And it looks about the same size as the backpack EVSE which comes with the car. Have you got your car yet and tried it out? I guess the only real advantage of the E-Station is that it does 30 amps so it is future proof. But 15amps is all the 2012 Leaf can use so it's probably not a priority. It certainly makes the Origin charger look like a total rip-off doesn't it. $2700 -vs- $500 How much did the sparky charge for installation, and what did he actually do. If he just changed the plug, you must have been tempted to do it yourself. cheers, MarkR
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Post by stewartm on Aug 27, 2013 20:07:44 GMT 11
The sparkie who is a mate said cost to general public was around $200. That was running 20 amp cable from the off peak line in the power box into the garage to the 15amp outlet. About 5m of cable and conduit. The plug was a UK 16amp one with a 16 amp fuse built in, he changed this to an Australian 15amp. This is due to the UK ring feed system that individual fuses are needed on each appliance in England my mate said. Interesting that there is a 20 amp plug that looks the same, it apparantly takes larger diameter cable. After a couple of weeks charging I will post the times to 80% and full on the CC charger. Car arriving by thursday Im told.
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Post by markrmarkr on Aug 28, 2013 9:05:16 GMT 11
I wouldn't worry about posting charging times. But you should check that it is shorter than the EVSE. $700 all up including installation and changing the plug. Pretty cool.
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Post by Feng on Sept 14, 2013 16:24:03 GMT 11
I'm still holding out for a cheaper EVSE, Stuart got lucky with his purchase and I can't find another ECS-20 online for a similar price. I've seen photos of an AeroVironment EVSE charging a LEAF in Australia at two separate events. I'm wondering what's involved with adapting a US EVSE for use in Australia since that's what was likely done. The US eBay website has the Bosch PowerMax for just over AU$500: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=%22EVSE%22&_sop=15. It's awfully tempting to ask a friend in the US to buy it and send it to me for installation here once I'm sure it'll work!
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Post by duncan on Sept 14, 2013 19:27:00 GMT 11
Well electricity is the same all over the world....it's just the plug or maybe voltage that could be different. Be careful with cheap US stuff because it might be 110v which would suck. But they do have 240v domestic supplies in some places as a higher spec option so you are likely to find 240v units
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Post by Feng on Sept 14, 2013 20:40:09 GMT 11
The problem is the wiring diagram of the Bosch has two live terminals, L1 and L2 alongside ground. I think it might be expecting two 120V supplies to make it 240. I could be wrong but want to be certain of things like this before spending hundreds.
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Mike
Half Charge
Posts: 54
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Post by Mike on Sept 16, 2013 9:48:55 GMT 11
I'm not 100% with the US system but there should still be active (L1), neutral (L2) + ground with the 240V. Have you tried the technical support # 1-877-805-EVSE (3873) ?
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Post by Feng on Sept 16, 2013 10:43:46 GMT 11
I'm not 100% with the US system but there should still be active (L1), neutral (L2) + ground with the 240V. Have you tried the technical support # 1-877-805-EVSE (3873) ? I hope that's the case but I'm seeing things like this which goes against that theory: www.loopykiwi.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/power-to-people.html. Not sure what happens if you wire 240V in one pin and ground in the other when it's expecting 115V in each at opposing phases. Also unsure of if the frequency difference will be an issue. I might give the number a try if I get nowhere. I tried mailing them and other manufacturers but got no reply or firm answers. Might also give the folks at AEVA a try since they seem to be a lot more DIY with EVs.
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Post by stewartm on Sept 16, 2013 23:38:59 GMT 11
As I see it the charger in the LEAF needs 240 volts AC, i.e. that is a potential between two connectors of 240 volts, therefore the L1 and L2 have 240 across them. I cant see why it wouldnt work.
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Post by Feng on Sept 17, 2013 0:36:37 GMT 11
Hey Mike, you're a sparky aren't you? Do you know if there are any regulations I might violate if I install a US EVSE here? The last thing I want is to set fire to something and find myself in a world of trouble for it.
Don't mean to put you in the spotlight and I can understand if you're hesitant to give advice about this grey area!
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Post by Feng on Sept 18, 2013 15:34:28 GMT 11
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Mike
Half Charge
Posts: 54
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Post by Mike on Sept 18, 2013 20:31:38 GMT 11
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Post by Feng on Sept 18, 2013 20:46:49 GMT 11
Thanks Mike
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Mike
Half Charge
Posts: 54
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Post by Mike on Sept 18, 2013 21:14:50 GMT 11
I'm not confident what the insurance company would say if one of these non compliant items would cause the unthinkable...I am actually heading to the Frankfurt motor show tomorrow (worst luck) and am aiming to source cost effective and compliant EVSE as part of a new business model.
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Post by Feng on Sept 18, 2013 22:12:38 GMT 11
Frankfurt Motor show! You are too lucky! There are some awesome cars on display this year. Hope the business venture works out.
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anthony
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 32
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by anthony on Oct 11, 2013 17:34:49 GMT 11
Hi Feng, Did you end up getting one of these?
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Post by Feng on Oct 11, 2013 20:13:29 GMT 11
Hi Anthony, welcome to the forum. No I haven't yet, still tossing up over getting it through eBay for ~$658 total or directly through Clipper Creek for ~$733 + postage (don't know how much). The CC option is appealing because they can supply the higher amperage model with the Australian plug and therefore it retains ETL EU and CE listings. The rep says if I bought it through eBay and change the plug it voids the certification. I still don't know if that's really a big issue or not.
Either way I'm in no hurry since the car's stock unit does the job just fine. I just want something a bit faster for the convenience especially if I take the car places.
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anthony
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 32
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by anthony on Oct 11, 2013 22:01:59 GMT 11
Am I right in thinking that the one supplied direct from Clipper Creek would plug directly into the same 15 amp outlet required by the EVSE supplied with the leaf, and will decrease charge times by about 1/4?
We are planning to try to do most of our charging from solar panels as we have a 6kw system, so I think having a quicker charger will probably be needed to achieve this.
Thanks.
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