anyseong
EV Enthusiast
Perfumery in Jeju island, South Korea
Posts: 11
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Post by anyseong on May 20, 2015 15:00:32 GMT 11
Hi, guys I joined this forum only yesterday. I am considering to buy a leaf and done some search but ended in confusion. It seems there are several versions on the market; just leaf(before 2012?), (all) new leaf(after 2012?) and 2nd generation leaf. Can anyone tell how many versions of leaf have been out in the market so far and which version is selling in Au? The salesperson I contacted in my town (Gold Coast) said "All the Leaf that are available in Australia is Gen 1 only we do not have a release date of the Gen2 at all." Will it be OK to buy gen1 leaf(June 2012 model) at this moment?
Thank you for your help.
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Post by gabzimiev on May 20, 2015 15:11:41 GMT 11
Gen 1 and you should be able to twist their arm to $35k
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Post by Feng on May 20, 2015 15:24:09 GMT 11
Hi Anyseong, the car will need a thorough detail since it's been in storage for about three years. The battery pack might have degraded slightly from age. A Perth owner lost 15% capacity after less than three months of ownership but that might be because the Perth heat and improper storage of the battery. Some recent owners here might want to chime in about their experiences and driving range.
The main differences between the gen 1 and current LEAF are slightly improved range, optionally faster charging (~4 hours vs ~6 hours) and a more efficient heater. Not that big a deal if the 1st gen is good enough for your needs.
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anyseong
EV Enthusiast
Perfumery in Jeju island, South Korea
Posts: 11
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Post by anyseong on May 20, 2015 21:41:49 GMT 11
Gab,the salesguy offered $34,990 drive away at my first asking price. I am wondering if he can go down further if I twist his arm harder.
Feng, thank you for battery advice. I am going to see and test drive the demo leaf at Gold Coast Nissan dealership early next month. I think I have to throughly check the battery condition.
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Post by Feng on May 20, 2015 22:44:21 GMT 11
If they give you a battery health report it might just be the one you normally get when getting your car serviced. That only tells you how well you're looking after your battery, not it's actual health. If you can get an amp hour reading from a mechanic that would be best. New batteries are around 62-64Ahr. Don't know if they're willing to just tell you that. Maybe mention the guy in Perth as a reason for knowing.
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Post by jeffjl on May 20, 2015 23:12:28 GMT 11
Get yourself a USB dongle and Leaf Spy and look at the battery health there.
You should be able to find on the web how many GIDs a new battery should have and what the one they are going to sell to you has, hence the degradation. I lost my first capacity bar at 8,500km. As mentioned somebody else in Perth lost theirs at <5,000km. Still 34K for a new LEAF would spark my interest.
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Post by EVangelist on May 21, 2015 0:07:59 GMT 11
And the really interesting question is... what will Nissan do after the last 2012 Leaf is sold? Wait until 2016 for the Gen 3 Leaf to come out, with 300+ km range?
anyseong - we bought our Leaf in November and have done nearly 4500 km. No battery bars lost, range seems to be unchanged. We almost always only charge to 80%. Range for discharge from 80% battery to 20% (when we usually recharge) is reliably 90-100km. Sydney has a very mild climate though which doesn't challenge the battery, and our car is garaged which further helps.
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Post by gabzimiev on May 21, 2015 10:21:10 GMT 11
Gab,the salesguy offered $34,990 at my first asking price. I am wondering if he can go down further if I twist his arm harder. is that with or without the 0% finance ?
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anyseong
EV Enthusiast
Perfumery in Jeju island, South Korea
Posts: 11
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Post by anyseong on May 21, 2015 12:23:50 GMT 11
Gab, good point. It never ocurred to me asking about finance, cos I have saved enough dough for leaf. I'll ask him and if it's 0% finance, I may be able to use the cash as a lever to twist his arm.^^.
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Post by gabzimiev on May 21, 2015 12:45:16 GMT 11
it's a good price if they do bring out the 2nd gen it won't get that low in the USA the base model new 2nd gen is ~$30k USD ~$38k AUD then you add GST stamp duty etc..they do get a $7.5kUSD tax refund from the government.
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Post by markrmarkr on May 22, 2015 8:50:24 GMT 11
I'm on 25,000 km after a year and a half, and still haven't lost any bars. So it's pot luck.
Were I you I'd definitely get the "CAN bus dongle" and "Leaf Spy" if it's a show room/demonstrator. But, if they are pulling one out of storage that may not be possible. You would need to make a deposit and have options installed etc, before you even see the car.
That's another thing to watch, with a few options the price can easily creep back up to $40k. You need to know what you want before starting any negotiations.
Offering cash will definitely get their attention, but save it for your last play.
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Post by caroline on May 22, 2015 20:09:36 GMT 11
Wow I bought a leaf from Gold Coast nissan a month ago now and paid $37k drive away and thought I was getting a good deal!! And what's this about 0% finance? The salesperson also told me there are no options?
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Post by Feng on May 22, 2015 21:03:19 GMT 11
Hi Caroline, welcome to the forum! Always nice to see a new member here.
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Post by Phoebe on May 23, 2015 8:07:06 GMT 11
Welcome to the Forum, Caroline. Hope you are enjoying your LEAF.
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Post by moyanous on May 23, 2015 12:57:37 GMT 11
I believe zero finance finished at the end of march.
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Post by caroline on May 23, 2015 17:42:06 GMT 11
Thanks Phoebe and Feng - yes loving my Leaf! Have wanted one since they came out and am not disappointed :-). A few people I have taken for a ride are now seriously considering purchasing one. Looking forward to the day we are all ev drivers!
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Post by caroline on May 23, 2015 17:43:54 GMT 11
I believe zero finance finished at the end of march. If only I had known I would have got my act together earlier. I made an enquiry in Feb but the Leaf salesman wasn't there and there was no leaf demo (apparently they have one now).
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Post by caroline on May 23, 2015 17:44:44 GMT 11
And yes I bought one with no test drive!
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Post by empowerrepower on May 23, 2015 18:23:43 GMT 11
No test drive, living dangerously there . I bought my Leaf on March 8th with the 0% finance for $39 900, so your price sounds good. Welcome to the forum, and to another Queenslander. If they are now selling them for $35K without the 0% finance, that sounds about equivalent.
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Post by caroline on May 27, 2015 22:25:41 GMT 11
But, if they are pulling one out of storage that may not be possible. You would need to make a deposit and have options installed etc, before you even see the car. What options are available? I was told there weren't any?
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Post by caroline on May 27, 2015 22:27:44 GMT 11
Hi, guys I joined this forum only yesterday. I am considering to buy a leaf and done some search but ended in confusion. It seems there are several versions on the market; just leaf(before 2012?), (all) new leaf(after 2012?) and 2nd generation leaf. Can anyone tell how many versions of leaf have been out in the market so far and which version is selling in Au? The salesperson I contacted in my town (Gold Coast) said "All the Leaf that are available in Australia is Gen 1 only we do not have a release date of the Gen2 at all." Will it be OK to buy gen1 leaf(June 2012 model) at this moment?
Thank you for your help.
How are you going with the negotiations? Mine came out of storage and so far so good though I would like to have the battery's capacity tested to be sure.
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anyseong
EV Enthusiast
Perfumery in Jeju island, South Korea
Posts: 11
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Post by anyseong on May 28, 2015 15:53:55 GMT 11
I am oversea at this monent. Will be back to Au on the 1st of June, when I will be able to view and test drive the leaf. The problem is, in the mean time, my mind was splitted between a full electric car and a hybrid car. Range anxiety, gradual deterioration of battery strenth hence diminish of range over years, poor public charging infrastructure in Au etc made me lean to a Toyota hybrid. I think I have to to view and test drive both first and make decision after that.
Cheers!
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Post by Feng on May 28, 2015 16:04:07 GMT 11
You might want to consider a PHEV if you want something that's not always using petrol. The Outlander PHEV is quite decent, also the Holden Volt if you want something smaller, but it only seats four and is a bit pricey for what it is. It really depends on what your driving patterns are and if you've got easy access to a non-EV for longer trips.
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Post by Phoebe on May 28, 2015 16:05:44 GMT 11
Most of us find range isn't really a problem 'cos our usual commute is so much less than possible range that it is not an issue even when batteries get a bit worn. It really depends on what sort of driving you do and whether you can use any of the fast chargers that are around if you do want to go a greater distance.
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Post by Feng on May 28, 2015 16:20:22 GMT 11
Happy 1000th post Phoebe!
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Post by EVangelist on May 29, 2015 0:13:12 GMT 11
The problem is, in the mean time, my mind was splitted between a full electric car and a hybrid car. Range anxiety, gradual deterioration of battery strenth hence diminish of range over years, poor public charging infrastructure in Au etc made me lean to a Toyota hybrid. I think I have to to view and test drive both first and make decision after that. The issue I have with hybrids (apart from the fact that they still use petrol) is that mechanically they are very complicated machines - they have two drive trains - one ICE and one electric - hence two motors both of which can drive the car. This means complicated control equipment to run both and switch between the two, and more stuff that can go wrong. Also that means more space in the car is used for stuff that drives it, less space for people and luggage. Also many hybrids have extremely limited electric-only range - as little as 1km at speeds below 40 km/h. PHEV's are a bit better, they don't use as much petrol as conventional hybrids, and for a lot of commuting tasks, operate in electric only mode. Then there's EVs with "range extenders" which have EV-only drivetrains, and ICEs whose sole purpose to to charge the battery when needed, not drive the car. But best of all is pure EV, if it works for your driving pattern. EVs are really simple and not much can ever go wrong with them (Phil's experience notwithstanding!). The engine bay in the Leaf is tiny, Tesla do away with it all together and have two boots (front and back) with everything that drives the car out of the way and not user serviceable (Telsa even say maintentance is optional and won't void warranty). I think battery deterioration is overrated. From what I've read, expect about 20% deterioration in the first 10 years. So unless you always need to drive close to the maximum range, it won't be an issue. It's likely that after 10 years, if you really need to replace the battery, not only will they be much cheaper than today, but probably much higher capacity in the same form factor. All IMO, and all very biased!
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anyseong
EV Enthusiast
Perfumery in Jeju island, South Korea
Posts: 11
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Post by anyseong on May 29, 2015 20:51:20 GMT 11
But you have good point in IYO very biased! If battery deterioration in overrated and if IN GENERAL we can expect about 20% deterioration in the first 10 years, then battery life span may not be a problem. The best of all is pure EV, yes I agree. I do not believe the hybrid is a definitive form of drive train system rather a niche or transitional one between ICE and EV. It may well be short lived when some shortcommings of present EV are covered and when you can find charge points in every corner of streets. I really wish to replace my ICE with an EV for all the same reasons as you have. Over 95% of my trips would be within the range of an overnight charge. But what if I need to make a trip of 200km once a month and I dont want to have a gas car for that. After I get my leaf it may have some trouble and most of car mechanics in town may not know how to fix it even they might have not seen the car before! I am on a round trip to an unfamiliar destination with no charging point about 50km away. I had 120Km range on my leaf when I started. The road is pretty darn uphill all the way and I used more than half of the range before I get there. What should I do? Come back or run the risk? All these things keep me apprehensive.
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Post by datsunleaf on May 30, 2015 4:25:08 GMT 11
The great thing about the regenerative nature of the Leaf is that you can make up the kilometres that you used getting to the top point on your return journey downhill. We do a similar trip that is uphill all the way and find that we get home with almost as many kilometres remaining as when we were at the top point of our journey as when we are going downhill the Leaf is regenerating a lot of the time. We drive the car in ECO mode.
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Post by EVangelist on May 31, 2015 12:06:08 GMT 11
If battery deterioration in overrated and if IN GENERAL we can expect about 20% deterioration in the first 10 years, then battery life span may not be a problem. I really wish to replace my ICE with an EV for all the same reasons as you have. Over 95% of my trips would be within the range of an overnight charge. But what if I need to make a trip of 200km once a month and I dont want to have a gas car for that. After I get my leaf it may have some trouble and most of car mechanics in town may not know how to fix it even they might have not seen the car before! Battery experiences on this forum vary - a couple of people have lost their first bar (1/12) before 10,000 km. Others are way past 20,000 km before losing their first bar. Temperature extremes (car exposed to very hot or cold weather) can impact battery range and life. And some say charging regularly to 100% shortens battery life, others say that has little impact. The good thing to remember is that Nissan provide a 5 year battery warranty - lose 4 or more bars (i.e. 33%+) in the first 5 years or 100,000 km and you'll get a new battery. Nissan also provide their own free roadside assist for the first 1 year (? or maybe 3 - I haven't checked the fine print) so if you do get into trouble they will help. NRMA (NSW) also claim their roadside crews are trained on electric cars. As datsunleaf reported, regeneration is really good. A long uphill trip somewhere might have you sweating about the return trip, but you'll get a lot of energy back through regeneration going downhill. In my 8 months of Leaf owership, overall 37% of the total power used has come from regeneration! The Leaf is our second car, if we ever need to go on a return trip >120km somewhere, we use our ICE (but we are on a mission to replace it as soon as it is feasible to do so). If the Leaf would be your only car, you could consider renting an ICE for the occasions you need to travel longer distances, if it's only going to be a few times per year. Ultimately only you can decide. If you regularly drive daily distances close to the Leaf's range, and don't have a charging point at work/destination, then driving the Leaf may be more anxiety-inducing than pleasurable.
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Post by caroline on May 31, 2015 19:41:05 GMT 11
My mum is so impressed with my leaf she is considering an EV. But because she does a bit of long range driving she's looking into the i3 REx
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