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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 31, 2014 17:55:32 GMT 11
Hi, I was reading the Nissan Leaf brochure, and it says that plugging into a 15 amp power-point will take 14 hours, and using an installed EVSE will take 7-8 hours. Yet reading back through the posts, I can see that Phoebe (8th Aug 2013) recharges from a power-point in 8 hours, and Jim Hare recharges from an Origen recharger in 6 hours. I'm left wondering how there can be such a different claim from Nissan. If the difference is only 2 hours between the two options, and given the price of rechargers, I'd be wondering if I could get by with a power-point, and then perhaps install an EVSE in a few years, in the hope that the price might drop? 
Whether or not I can access off-peak electricity rates by having a wired-in EVSE is something I still need to find out about from Energex, so that may also be a factor in my decision. If anyone has any experience to share, I'd appreciate it. |
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Post by datsunleaf on Dec 31, 2014 18:32:32 GMT 11
At home we simply use the charger provided with the Leaf on a dedicated 15 amp powerpoint. It takes between 6 - 7 hours from empty to 100% charge. We carry the Volt charger in the boot for when we travel. It takes around tge same time me thinks :-) Nissan may be using the same information they use in countries with only 110 -120 volt power as apposed to our 240 Volts hence their longer charging times. I can't see the value at present installing EVSE
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Post by Phoebe on Dec 31, 2014 21:29:42 GMT 11
No-one takes the time to charge that Nissan says, which is ridiculous. Why on earth would they say it takes so much longer than it does? I'm still very happy using my dedicated 15 amp power point with the charger provided.
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Post by gabzimiev on Dec 31, 2014 23:03:23 GMT 11
I calculated that the time reduction factor is 0.67 [1] so 8 hours to full with the 15amp power point means 8*0.67 = 5.36 hours with a fixed 7kW EVSE. given that when you get above 95% the charge rate slows so they are about the same yes 6 hours is correct. I have no idea why Nissan Australia got the numbers so wrong..but noone has done a great job in Australia yet selling EVs except the owners. and then perhaps install an EVSE in a few years, in the hope that the price might drop? care to give some free market research and tell me what price you would pay ? [1] rechargingnsw.com.au/introducing-our-7kw-aerovironment-and-elektrobay-evse/ |
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Post by lesmando24 on Dec 31, 2014 23:09:54 GMT 11
I have had it take 10 hours from low ( <5 km) to full on the brick, but never 14 hours
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Post by Feng on Jan 1, 2015 0:32:56 GMT 11
I have no idea why Nissan Australia got the numbers so wrong..but noone has done a great job in Australia yet selling EVs except the owners. Too right! And a happy new year everyone! |
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Post by quaternary on Jan 1, 2015 19:51:09 GMT 11
Hi empowerrepower
If I was doing it all again I wouldn't have bought a third party charger, and would have relied on the EVSE 'brick' that had come with the car.
It was the same sort of misinformation that I had received - that it would take up to 15 hours - that had led me to purchase it in the first place. Yes, this same information is on this side of the Tasman too (and we have the same power being supplied to our homes as in Australia, and the same model Leafs at our Nissan dealers - we are doing our bit to help with the Aussie Leaf mountain.) So, yes, this 15 hour thing seems to have been just information regurgitated from other markets far away.
And to avoid stressing the battery too much, typically one only charges to 80% of full capacity, and avoids going below 20%. That means you are only charging the difference which is 60%. Even though the battery capacity is 24kWh, it appears only 21kWh if available. So if you are charging 60% of that, that is only 12.6 kWh.
The EVSE 'brick' draws about 10 amps (despite the style of plug that is typically used for 15 amp applications to further confuse matters). So, doing the maths yourself:
Energy (Wh) = voltage (volts) x current (amps) x time (hours)
so time (h) = Energy (Wh) / (voltage x current)
= 12,600 Wh / (230V x 10A)
= 5.5 hours.
Now the charging isn't completely efficient, and people have said there are between 10-15% in losses, so going with 15%, that would increase the theoretical time from 5.5 hours to about 6.5 hours.
So that's what I'm looking at to charge the battery after a typical day of running about town using the EVSE 'brick', although this will be greater if I've charged all the way to 100% and/or drained the battery down to nearer 0%.
Now, installing a unit in your garage can supply power to your 2012 Leaf at around 16 amps (or around 3kW). So running the maths through, instead of 6.5 hours to charge the batter from 20% to 80%, it'll take more like 4 hours.
Either way, plenty of time to charge up while one is sleeping.
I hope that helps!
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Post by Jim Hare on Jan 1, 2015 20:17:48 GMT 11
Pretty sure those are American figures based on 110v power.
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Post by datsunleaf on Jan 1, 2015 20:50:14 GMT 11
Thats what I think as well Jim
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 1, 2015 21:35:52 GMT 11
Maybe, and maybe they didn't attempt to change them because they had done this deal with Origin Energy to sell their unit and people would be more likely to buy the Origin unit if they thought the one they got with the car would take 15 hours to charge  |
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Post by gabzimiev on Jan 12, 2015 19:40:30 GMT 11
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peter
EV Tyre Kicker
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Post by peter on Feb 13, 2015 15:58:22 GMT 11
for the 15A GPO should it be single or 3-phase connection?
many thanks
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Post by lesmando24 on Feb 13, 2015 16:36:01 GMT 11
Single phase
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Post by southernvolt on Aug 24, 2016 17:51:57 GMT 11
Resurrecting an old thread. To try and buy myself some more time with the Leaf I am thinking of putting in a higher amp powerpoint and buying an after market EVSE. I've always charged using the supplied charging brick through a 10amp to 15 mp plug adapter. Can someone advise whether I can get a slightly quicker charge if I put in a dedicated 15 amp point and buying a clipper creek or similar EVSE?
One of the issues I'm having (like today actually) is that when the car returns home with a flat battery it takes too long to put enough power back in for the next trip. Today it arrived with about 14km's. I needed 20 km's but getting about 8 km's per hour into the pack (estimate) wouldn't be enough to take it back out as I didn't have long enough. So the Diesel was the only option. Only I didn't have the Diesel. So I had to wait until it arrived and then left a bit late.
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Post by Phoebe on Aug 24, 2016 18:14:56 GMT 11
I always use the provided EVSE with a dedicated 15 amp power point and I think I get about 10 or 11kms for every hour of charge. Don't know if you can make any sense of my charging record, but here it is in case it is any use to you in working out whether the 15 amp power point is worthwhile for you. I think it cost me a bit over $200 to get it installed. 0A LEAF Charge.xlsx (17.74 KB) |
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Post by EVangelist on Aug 24, 2016 18:27:04 GMT 11
Southernvolt - I think to inject more than 10A into charging you need to have a dedicated fixed charger installed, EVSE is not enough. I have a 15A socket in my garage, but all I did was replace the twin 10A socket with a single 15A Clipsal industrial, merely for mechanical ease of connecting the Nissan EVSE. The 15A socket still runs off a 20A circuit and can't deliver more than 10A into the Leaf so charging wise it makes no difference.
A dedicated charger can charge the Leaf at a true 15A because it provides the required signaling to the Leaf to tell it to draw more than 10A. To go to the next step above that I think you need Chademo but others here who are more familiar can advise.
When I get my Tesla M3 in 2018 I will install the highest capacity dedicated charger I can in my garage with 2 cables so that I can charge the Leaf and the Tesla simultaneously. I am lucky and have 3 phase power in my house so I can totally cook the goose if I want to.
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Post by jeffthewalker on Aug 24, 2016 20:05:40 GMT 11
Resurrecting an old thread. To try and buy myself some more time with the Leaf I am thinking of putting in a higher amp powerpoint and buying an after market EVSE. I've always charged using the supplied charging brick through a 10amp to 15 mp plug adapter. Can someone advise whether I can get a slightly quicker charge if I put in a dedicated 15 amp point and buying a clipper creek or similar EVSE? One of the issues I'm having (like today actually) is that when the car returns home with a flat battery it takes too long to put enough power back in for the next trip. Today it arrived with about 14km's. I needed 20 km's but getting about 8 km's per hour into the pack (estimate) wouldn't be enough to take it back out as I didn't have long enough. So the Diesel was the only option. Only I didn't have the Diesel. So I had to wait until it arrived and then left a bit late. I am also looking at the possibility of carrying a portable (enough) 15A EVSE to cut down my "daytime" charge from 6 hours to 4 hours. I still have 10,000klms to travel at approximately 200km per day to get back to Sydney. That is 50 day charges where I have to sit or walk around. Saving 2 hours per day could be significant. I would have to redo the thinking about driving time and charging time tradeoffs. So far the Clipper Creek looks a good chance. Also, I suppose, I could hire/borrow one and return it after a few month's usage. |
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Post by hieronymous on Aug 24, 2016 20:33:47 GMT 11
Resurrecting an old thread. To try and buy myself some more time with the Leaf I am thinking of putting in a higher amp powerpoint and buying an after market EVSE. I've always charged using the supplied charging brick through a 10amp to 15 mp plug adapter. Can someone advise whether I can get a slightly quicker charge if I put in a dedicated 15 amp point and buying a clipper creek or similar EVSE? One of the issues I'm having (like today actually) is that when the car returns home with a flat battery it takes too long to put enough power back in for the next trip. Today it arrived with about 14km's. I needed 20 km's but getting about 8 km's per hour into the pack (estimate) wouldn't be enough to take it back out as I didn't have long enough. So the Diesel was the only option. Only I didn't have the Diesel. So I had to wait until it arrived and then left a bit late. Hi southernvolt The Gen 1 Leaf with its 3.3KW charger can take up to about 13.3A, so if you put in an intelligent controller that can negotiate the higher rate, you will charge about one-third quicker i.e. an hour charging now will take about 40 min. You can do this with your existing EVSE - it's not the EVSE that makes the difference in amperage, it's the intelligent controller which has to be hard-wired to your house supply. Your EVSE says "anyone there?" and if it gets an answer, it says "give me a higher rate" - otherwise it is limited to 10A. So it's not a (cheap) 15A powerpoint you need, it's an (much more expensive) intelligent controller, just like the EV plug chargers you will have used away from home. I have a heavy-duty (15A) powerpoint that my EVSE plugs straight into, but I only get 10A from it, as it is dumb..... P.S. You should be getting a lot more than 8km's per hour of charging - my usual 70 min charging always gives me 3 KWh or slightly more, so depending on your economy, you might well be putting in 20km/hour. |
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Post by stewartm on Aug 25, 2016 17:57:23 GMT 11
The Aussie leaf has a 3.3kw charger that pulls 3.6kw after inefficiencies. Ergo 240 volts x 15 amps = 3.6kw. Empty tank needing ~20kWh / 3.3kW is about 6 hours on a 15 amp EVSE.
Having an 'intelligent controller' with a higher rate won't make any difference to the charge rate, it will still only pull around 15 amps and charge in the same time.
The Nissan supplied EVSE unit whilst plugging into a 15amp outlet only pulls just under 10 amps and will take about 9 hours at 240 volts.
I use a Siemens Versicharge unit on a 20 amp line that on a 32 amp line can deliver 7+kW.. It still only draws the maximum 3.6kW, 3.3kW usable for the leaf.
Jeff I have a portable 15 amp clipper creek with 15 amp plug and an EMW JUICEBOX set to 15 amp. You are welcome to borrow either for your trip. The clipper creek is more compact and I beleIve more robust. Let me know.
I am also trialing a 10kw chademo portable (15kg) with a three phase 32 amp input. Yet to do any long trips with that yet.
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Post by jeffthewalker on Aug 25, 2016 18:54:09 GMT 11
Jeff I have a portable 15 amp clipper creek with 15 amp plug and an EMW JUICEBOX set to 15 amp. You are welcome to borrow either for your trip. The clipper creek is more compact and I beleIve more robust. Let me know. I am also trialing a 10kw chademo portable (15kg) with a three phase 32 amp input. Yet to do any long trips with that yet. Now there's an offer I can't refuse!! I have been looking at the Clipper Creek and I have heard lots of good things about it. From past posts you are in Queensland. I could pay the freight to WA and hand it back in person with thanks when I return. I am kinda "stuck" here in Collie (south west WA) for another month and a bit and then away again. I don't mind the delay as I have two sons over here that I don't see all that often. If you can part with the Clipper Creek for 3-4 months I would would be forever grateful (well, a few months, at least:-). I am also following your evaluation of the 10kW CHAdeMO portable. |
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Post by jake on Aug 26, 2016 9:56:34 GMT 11
I've go a Clipper Creek which I bought after reading stuff on this forum about it. Love it. Charges fast and is just as portable as the brick that comes with the Leaf. Also reasonably priced.
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Post by jeffthewalker on Aug 26, 2016 10:20:03 GMT 11
I've go a Clipper Creek which I bought after reading stuff on this forum about it. Love it. Charges fast and is just as portable as the brick that comes with the Leaf. Also reasonably priced. Hi Jake. Thanks for supporting my faith in the Clipper Creek product. I'll probably end up getting one for myself once I get back to Queensland and settling down in one place. |
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Post by 4wardthinking on Aug 26, 2016 12:01:07 GMT 11
Re the Clipper Creek Charge station.
Obviously a USA product, and look pretty a sturdy in construction.
Now can these be bought in Australia, if so, from who or where.
I'm still looking around for one for my outside wall, one for a large business, and another on a "car service center" wall.
Any help appreciated here.
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Post by jake on Aug 26, 2016 12:57:26 GMT 11
No, they are not sold here. I ordered mine from the net. Came quickly and my electrician had no problem installing it. I considered putting a 15 amp plug on it to make it portable, but in the end, I got it hard wired and mounted to the wall. It is a nice compact unit though. store.clippercreek.com/international/ev-charging-station-european-internationalThere are 2 other international models and they would all work fine. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 15:17:39 GMT 11
As long as you don't have a volt
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Post by jake on Aug 27, 2016 2:50:26 GMT 11
As long as you don't have a volt Clipper Creeks don't work with the Volt? You'd think they would get that right since both are made in America. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 19:58:54 GMT 11
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