iwander
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 6 
LEAF OWNER?: No
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Post by iwander on Oct 5, 2014 19:29:27 GMT 11
Local dealer near Melb told me their available stock is from the 2012 inventory. I thought I would ask current owners, has sitting around for 2 years been detrimental to the battery? Would these 2012 cars exhibit the same battery performance as a new 2014 vehicle? Thanks for any replies.
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Post by caskings on Oct 5, 2014 19:56:13 GMT 11
Hi iwander, I bought my leaf back in 3/2014 (2012 build) and have put 17,000 kms on to it. I've not lost any capacity bars yet. No change in range that I've noticed aside from the seasonal fluctuation due to heater / AC use.
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iwander
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 6
LEAF OWNER?: No
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Post by iwander on Oct 5, 2014 20:04:23 GMT 11
hi caskings. it sounds like your vehicle has very good battery performance. that is good to hear. we continue to think about our Leaf purchase. thanks very much.
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Post by Phoebe on Oct 5, 2014 21:22:43 GMT 11
Hi iwander, welcome to the Forum. Everyone on this forum has the 2012 model and I don't think any of us have lost any battery bars yet!
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Post by gabzimiev on Oct 5, 2014 22:35:28 GMT 11
Leslie in qld has he was down 1 bar at 40,000 km. but then he has the hotter qld environment to deal with not sunny Melbourne.... you are covered by the Nissan warranty on the battery.
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Post by jacky on Oct 5, 2014 22:58:37 GMT 11
The dealer may tell you there is a 3 years warranty on the battery. But battery warranty is 5 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 9:07:12 GMT 11
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Post by hieronymous on Oct 6, 2014 12:51:37 GMT 11
Local dealer near Melb told me their available stock is from the 2012 inventory. I thought I would ask current owners, has sitting around for 2 years been detrimental to the battery? Would these 2012 cars exhibit the same battery performance as a new 2014 vehicle? Thanks for any replies. Hi iwander. Leaf batteries (and similar) are subject to a small amount of calendar aging, which is additional to that from heat, quick charging, sitting with a very high, or very low charge for long periods, and frequent charging associated with big annual km's. New from the factory, 2011-2012 Leafs had a battery capacity of 66AHr - the decreasing of this value reflects the ageing (and performance/range) of the battery. I bought my Leaf new last July with 53km on the clock, but it was manufactured in May 2012. My battery had close to 64 AHr at that time. The android app Leaf Spy shows a related measure, State of Health (SoH), which is the current AHr reading compared with new, as a percentage. My SoH then was 96%. This week my Leaf has reached 700km, the AHr reading is down to 62.7, and the SoH has just dipped to 95%. I charge to 80% about 3 times a month when I'm down to 3 bars (about 35%). The car is mostly in its garage, at about 15-18 degrees C; I use it around town at city speeds in Eco mode. So it is very lightly treated and looked after, but some decline in performance has to be expected. But this may not be noticeable for some time as your economy will vary with every trip. I get about 7km/KWh, which equates to somewhere from 150-160km from a full charge - I haven't seen any trend downwards yet. |
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Post by jeffjl on Oct 6, 2014 14:22:54 GMT 11
Local dealer near Melb told me their available stock is from the 2012 inventory. I thought I would ask current owners, has sitting around for 2 years been detrimental to the battery? Would these 2012 cars exhibit the same battery performance as a new 2014 vehicle? Thanks for any replies. Hi iwander. Leaf batteries (and similar) are subject to a small amount of calendar aging, which is additional to that from heat, quick charging, sitting with a very high, or very low charge for long periods, and frequent charging associated with big annual km's. New from the factory, 2011-2012 Leafs had a battery capacity of 66AHr - the decreasing of this value reflects the ageing (and performance/range) of the battery. I bought my Leaf new last July with 53km on the clock, but it was manufactured in May 2012. My battery had close to 64 AHr at that time. The android app Leaf Spy shows a related measure, State of Health (SoH), which is the current AHr reading compared with new, as a percentage. My SoH then was 96%. This week my Leaf has reached 700km, the AHr reading is down to 62.7, and the SoH has just dipped to 95%. I charge to 80% about 3 times a month when I'm down to 3 bars (about 35%). The car is mostly in its garage, at about 15-18 degrees C; I use it around town at city speeds in Eco mode. So it is very lightly treated and looked after, but some decline in performance has to be expected. But this may not be noticeable for some time as your economy will vary with every trip. I get about 7km/KWh, which equates to somewhere from 150-160km from a full charge - I haven't seen any trend downwards yet. For 700km that drop is drastic. LOL. |
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Post by hieronymous on Oct 6, 2014 14:55:33 GMT 11
It would be if the car was just manufactured.
Alternatively, it would be if SoH had been 100% at purchase.
It was neither...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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Post by Feng on Oct 6, 2014 15:06:41 GMT 11
My bet is it's temperature related. I've lost 3% in the past two months and I'm pretty sure it's because the battery has warmed from ~17 degrees to ~22 on average.
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iwander
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 6
LEAF OWNER?: No
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Post by iwander on Oct 6, 2014 15:44:06 GMT 11
Thanks hieronymous, this is the kind of detail I was thinking about. As the NA 2012 car inventory sit idle here in Australia do the batteries lose capacity/ performance. I've seen threads in other forums where owners describe their new AHr ranges and what you describe sounds reasonable. I'm still a novice so just trying to get my head around the concept of buying a "new" 2012 EV. New from the factory, 2011-2012 Leafs had a battery capacity of 66AHr - the decreasing of this value reflects the ageing (and performance/range) of the battery. I bought my Leaf new last July with 53km on the clock, but it was manufactured in May 2012. My battery had close to 64 AHr at that time. The android app Leaf Spy shows a related measure, State of Health (SoH), which is the current AHr reading compared with new, as a percentage. My SoH then was 96%. |
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Post by leafboi on Oct 6, 2014 16:32:01 GMT 11
Don't forget the 5 Yr Batteru Warranty only starts when the car is registered for the first time. So a MY2012 registered now is cover till 2019... So even with minor losses from sitting around, it's no problem.
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iwander
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 6
LEAF OWNER?: No
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Post by iwander on Oct 6, 2014 16:51:47 GMT 11
This is reassuring to know. Thanks. Don't forget the 5 Yr Batteru Warranty only starts when the car is registered for the first time. So a MY2012 registered now is cover till 2019... So even with minor losses from sitting around, it's no problem. |
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iwander
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 6
LEAF OWNER?: No
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Post by iwander on Oct 7, 2014 14:07:57 GMT 11
We've been researching the whole EV thing for a while now. Bouncing between Leaf, waiting for the next EV, caving in and going Hybrid, etc.. In all these months spent looking around, neither my wife or I have seen a Leaf on the road. Well during our commute today we saw 2 Leaf. Must be a sign.
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Post by riddick on Oct 7, 2014 14:29:22 GMT 11
Must be destiny ;-)
Re hybrid, I would never buy one. They are the worst of the 2 worlds making an engine such overly complex. Perhaps the Volt is the only exception, but as I understand even the Volt has some interaction between the 2 engines when accelerating instead of the ICE only being a charger.
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Post by Phoebe on Oct 7, 2014 14:54:49 GMT 11
We've been researching the whole EV thing for a while now. Bouncing between Leaf, waiting for the next EV, caving in and going Hybrid, etc.. In all these months spent looking around, neither my wife or I have seen a Leaf on the road. Well during our commute today we saw 2 Leaf. Must be a sign. EV versus hybrid. The question is how often do you want to do a trip where you would use the ICE engine. For me, there is no point in having a hybrid because I never want to do a round trip of more than 100kms, so I would never use the ICE engine, so there's no point in having one. The LEAF is an ideal commuting vehicle. What do you want the car for? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 19:30:48 GMT 11
that is correct the volt is a Parallel Hybrid in one of its modes. but Chevy don't want the Dept of Energy to know this cos then it becomes a Prius and not eligible for EV status. Hence the marketing dept says that it is an Extended Range Electric Vehicle. interestingly the volt transmission seems to be quite similar to the Prius transmission. ie. direct engine / wheel connection at times. the BMW i3 and Outlander in Series mode are the only vehicles are the true Series hybrid ie. like a diesel electric locomotive / submarine. funny thing is that one couple has gone from LEAF to Mitsu PHEV aussieleaf.tumblr.com/post/86487660736/goodbye-leaf-and-hello-mitsubishi-phev-yesterdaybut still prefer the LEAF. and would go with an EV if it could do 300-400kms. aussieleaf.tumblr.comnote that the Mitsu PHEV has 3 modes. Parallel, Series n EV. |
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Post by hieronymous on Oct 7, 2014 19:53:33 GMT 11
Hi g4qber. I don't know anything about the Volt transmission, but the Prius has the larger electric motor MG2 only, geared to the wheels, and both the smaller motor MG1 and the ICE feeding the hybrid synergy drive independent of the wheels at all times.
In flat low-load running it is fascinating to watch (with Torque Pro gauges) the Prius wheels driving MG2 as a generator, in order to power MG1 to run as a motor acting as an overdrive to the ICE, thus allowing very low ICE revs and better economy. It seems so back-to-front it is referred to as Heretical Mode.
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Post by riddick on Oct 8, 2014 22:01:44 GMT 11
Wow, it is so overly complicated...
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Post by hieronymous on Oct 9, 2014 9:03:54 GMT 11
Wow, it is so overly complicated... One persons "overly complicated" is another persons "technically fascinating"  . I could describe the Leaf as "boring" in comparison. The "overly complicated" Prius has a 15 year track record of unsurpassed reliability; they are widely regarded as "bullet-proof". There are Prius taxis in the States that have run 300,000-400,000 miles on the original battery and transmission, and couriers with Prius C's who have run up 100,000 miles in 2 years with zero problems and still on the original tires. Toyota has sold millions of them, and as the world's most successful vehicle manufacturer now has 40% of production in hybrids. On a US vehicle model list I read a couple of months ago, Americans had a choice of 49 hybrid models across nearly the whole brand range. The Leaf has only been around since 2011, and has well-documented battery and heater (Gen 1) issues. Many owners find their tires don't last long, and mention poor paint quality. None that I'm aware of have reached 100,000 miles - the clock is still ticking on whether the Leaf is going to be a success story. Buyers mostly go for brand reliability as well as price and running costs. They don't care about "overly complicated", they never open the hood. A hybrid is a sound purchase in their view, because it does everything they want. |
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Post by gabzimiev on Oct 9, 2014 9:25:29 GMT 11
i had a pair of tires that only lasted 12 months once.... i'm not sure what your saying there.. it has more to do with the driver and the performance you want from your tire.
the hybrid system of the Toyota is now dated, with some pure petrols returning better fuel economy, and the phev which are both series and parallel hybrids being the cutting edge. now toyota have given up and gone towards hydrogen...
toyota was first to the game and did great work i'm not sure where they are going now. in my view downwards.
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Post by riddick on Oct 9, 2014 9:57:49 GMT 11
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Airman's Odyssey
Buyer's will care when they understand that if something goes wrong in Prius then the servicing will be a nightmare. In the Leaf the only thing that can pretty much go wrong is the battery. The heater has been sorted out a long time ago (I am the first to admit its issues), it is only here that we do not have access to it. To be fair, compare to the 1st gen Prius not the last.
No one in Australia had a battery problem so far. In reliability and running costs, it is hard to beat the Leaf. The price will come down soon enough much below the Prius as complicated means high base cost.
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Post by Feng on Oct 9, 2014 10:07:00 GMT 11
The Leaf has only been around since 2011, and has well-documented battery and heater (Gen 1) issues. Many owners find their tires don't last long, and mention poor paint quality. None that I'm aware of have reached 100,000 miles - the clock is still ticking on whether the Leaf is going to be a success story. Steve Marsh has: transportevolved.com/2013/12/16/steve-marshs-nissan-leaf-rolls-over-100000-miles-still-going-strong/. He's currently at 130,000 miles (208,000km) after three and a half years. He might be down three capacity bars but it's still servicing its purpose for him. With the money he has saved in fuel it should have more than paid for a replacement pack. |
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Post by Phoebe on Oct 9, 2014 13:04:41 GMT 11
Nothing wrong with my LEAF paint and tyres (or anything else, for that matter) after 2 years and since I charge on solar, it's saved me a packet on fuel!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 15:29:04 GMT 11
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Post by Phoebe on Oct 9, 2014 15:47:22 GMT 11
Never seen snow in Melbourne  |
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Post by hieronymous on Oct 9, 2014 20:51:30 GMT 11
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Airman's Odyssey Buyer's will care when they understand that if something goes wrong in Prius then the servicing will be a nightmare. In the Leaf the only thing that can pretty much go wrong is the battery. The heater has been sorted out a long time ago (I am the first to admit its issues), it is only here that we do not have access to it. To be fair, compare to the 1st gen Prius not the last. No one in Australia had a battery problem so far. In reliability and running costs, it is hard to beat the Leaf. The price will come down soon enough much below the Prius as complicated means high base cost. You keep on saying that Prius's are complicated, but the HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is brilliantly simple - Toyota doesn't even recommend changing the fluid until 100,000 miles. There are no belts - everything is electric. Servicing is once a year, and costs less than the Leaf servicing. The only complicated part of a Prius is its software. My Prius C to buy new, plus depreciation, insurance, servicing and running costs, is costing me less than my Leaf. All the Prius models are way cheaper than the Leaf to purchase - I don't thnk Toyota is losing any money on them. My mechanic loves his 12 year old Gen1 Prius which has needed nothing but a new battery - $3500. Wouldn't we love that for our Leafs! Leafs are well made cars, but they will never become mainstream until/unless their batteries cost a fraction of what they do now, and provide at least 3 times the range. Gen 2 Leafs have lots of changes and fine-tuning but it's tinkering around the edges - there is no major model change in sight. Nissan is struggling to sell in sufficient numbers; significant sales are only occurring where governments provide financial incentives (i.e. NOT here). I enjoy my Leaf because it's a daily challenge to manage, but if I could have afforded but one vehicle, my Prius would be the choice, because apart from its mainstream capability, I am very confident of its reliability, and of Toyota to fix it if it does go wrong. I can't say the same about Nissan  |
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Post by jacky on Oct 9, 2014 23:18:21 GMT 11
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Airman's Odyssey Buyer's will care when they understand that if something goes wrong in Prius then the servicing will be a nightmare. In the Leaf the only thing that can pretty much go wrong is the battery. The heater has been sorted out a long time ago (I am the first to admit its issues), it is only here that we do not have access to it. To be fair, compare to the 1st gen Prius not the last. No one in Australia had a battery problem so far. In reliability and running costs, it is hard to beat the Leaf. The price will come down soon enough much below the Prius as complicated means high base cost. You keep on saying that Prius's are complicated, but the HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is brilliantly simple - Toyota doesn't even recommend changing the fluid until 100,000 miles. There are no belts - everything is electric. Servicing is once a year, and costs less than the Leaf servicing. The only complicated part of a Prius is its software. My Prius C to buy new, plus depreciation, insurance, servicing and running costs, is costing me less than my Leaf. All the Prius models are way cheaper than the Leaf to purchase - I don't thnk Toyota is losing any money on them. My mechanic loves his 12 year old Gen1 Prius which has needed nothing but a new battery - $3500. Wouldn't we love that for our Leafs! Leafs are well made cars, but they will never become mainstream until/unless their batteries cost a fraction of what they do now, and provide at least 3 times the range. Gen 2 Leafs have lots of changes and fine-tuning but it's tinkering around the edges - there is no major model change in sight. Nissan is struggling to sell in sufficient numbers; significant sales are only occurring where governments provide financial incentives (i.e. NOT here). I enjoy my Leaf because it's a daily challenge to manage, but if I could have afforded but one vehicle, my Prius would be the choice, because apart from its mainstream capability, I am very confident of its reliability, and of Toyota to fix it if it does go wrong. I can't say the same about Nissan Internal combustion engines are complex. I don't see why the Prius is simple. Not required to change fluid frequently and no belts to change only means Toyota was working very hard to minimise the maintenance of the car. It doesn't mean the car is simple. Compare with the software running on an iPad, the software on the Prius is simple. I am a programmer. I have been writing complex and sophisticated software for decades. Toyota recommends servicing a Prius every 6 months or 10,000 km. For the first three years (i.e., first 6 services), the service charge is capped at $130 per service. You can say the service of a Prius is cheaper than a LEAF but that doesn't indicate the complicity of the car. www.clintonstoyota.com.au/new-vehicles/prius-v/The Prius is cheaper to buy? Prius C I-tech is $30,800 drive away and it is smaller than the LEAF. I think it is fairer to compare the Prius I-tech with the LEAF. A Prius i-tech is $50,500 drive away while the LEAF is just $40,000. A Prius is more expensive. You should also consider the savings on the fuel. Replacing the battery of a Gen I Prius costed your friend $3,500?! It is expensive! Do you know the the capacity of the Prius battery is much lower than the LEAF? Prius 2nd Gen has only 1.3kWh battery capacity whereas LEAF has 24kWh. Prius batteries are just NiMH not Li-ion. Nissan is selling a replacement LEAF battery to US owner for US$5,500 only. |
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Post by quaternary on Oct 10, 2014 14:40:59 GMT 11
Local dealer near Melb told me their available stock is from the 2012 inventory. I thought I would ask current owners, has sitting around for 2 years been detrimental to the battery? Would these 2012 cars exhibit the same battery performance as a new 2014 vehicle? Thanks for any replies. Hi iwander. Leaf batteries (and similar) are subject to a small amount of calendar aging, which is additional to that from heat, quick charging, sitting with a very high, or very low charge for long periods, and frequent charging associated with big annual km's. New from the factory, 2011-2012 Leafs had a battery capacity of 66AHr - the decreasing of this value reflects the ageing (and performance/range) of the battery. I bought my Leaf new last July with 53km on the clock, but it was manufactured in May 2012. My battery had close to 64 AHr at that time. The android app Leaf Spy shows a related measure, State of Health (SoH), which is the current AHr reading compared with new, as a percentage. My SoH then was 96%. This week my Leaf has reached 700km, the AHr reading is down to 62.7, and the SoH has just dipped to 95%. I charge to 80% about 3 times a month when I'm down to 3 bars (about 35%). The car is mostly in its garage, at about 15-18 degrees C; I use it around town at city speeds in Eco mode. So it is very lightly treated and looked after, but some decline in performance has to be expected. But this may not be noticeable for some time as your economy will vary with every trip. I get about 7km/KWh, which equates to somewhere from 150-160km from a full charge - I haven't seen any trend downwards yet. Hi again hieronymous That's all really interesting, thanks for all that. And great question, iwander, as I was wondering the same thing myself. I bought my Leaf late July 2014, with a manufacture date of June 2012, with about 20 kilometres on the clock. We've been driving it at about a rate of about 1,500 km a month; 2-3 days per week charging to 100%, otherwise to 80%. About a month after purchasing the Leaf, I received my OBDII dongle, and I've been using LeafStat on the iPhone. My first LeafStat reading was about 37 days after Leaf purchase, and my most recent was last week on 4 October, 65 days from purchase. (I take a screen shot on those days that I've charged to 100%, and I remember to do it). So over this time frame my SOH has increased from 91.66% to 96.06% (AHr 60.73 to 63.65). (I haven't used Leaf Spy, but from LeafStat v 1.2 - which is the version I'm using - from version 1.2, "... Renamed displayed fields to match terms used on MyNissanLeaf and LEAFSpy".) So I'm wondering if the Leaf battery, after spending 25 months with little use, perhaps its health can improve as cells rebalance, etc? I'll attach a graph of the measurements. I'll also attach a screen shot of LeafStat. (Note that all the SOH measurements used in the graph were recorded on the morning after the car had charged overnight to 100%, and just after unplugging the car from the charger, and before any driving had been done.) Having read that this could change due to temperature, I've tried plotting the SOH against the recorded average battery temperature, and also against 3am ambient temperature, but such plots show little or no correlation. So I was wondering if anyone else has seen this apparent 'improvement' to battery health for a car that had spent time in storage before use?   |
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. I could describe the Leaf as "boring" in comparison.
