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Post by rusdy on Mar 8, 2018 14:36:26 GMT 11
... Attached is a spreadsheet showing the data and also plots of AHr against distance and time... ... I started keeping a spreadsheet of my LEAF Spy readings (see attachments)... Thanks for sharing the LeafSpy readings, it's useful to see how other Leaf behaves, especially in the down under. Something interesting I've noted, from Jeff's reading, the Leaf managed to charge up to 15.6kWh. I never be able to reach that high (15.1 is absolute max) despite my SOH is slightly higher. Hmmmm... Anyhoo, don't want to get beaten on data collection. Here is mine:
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2018 23:04:17 GMT 11
[quote author=" mike" source="/post/14217/thread" Will be interesting to see how quickly they can get the battery in and replaced...I'm not in any rush as the Leaf still meets 95% of our family's needs.[/quote][ Northside Nissan informed me that my battery warranty claim was accepted. They estimate 2-3 months for deliver of the new battery. Continuing to enjoy the Leaf for most daily driving.
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Post by Feng on Mar 27, 2018 0:36:08 GMT 11
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Post by rusdy on Mar 27, 2018 14:04:58 GMT 11
Exactly! I'll put my money down as soon as this is available in Australia (hoping for AUD6k or less). The more I find out incoming EVs and its specs, the more I realise I have such a good deal with my leaf (got it for 25k)! Thank you for my previous owner (sold it cheap for a Tesla)!
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Post by leaflongandprosper on Apr 1, 2018 18:48:52 GMT 11
Well that time will come within the next 12 months or so. Bar 12 went at 28000kms, bar 11 at 58000kms and bar 10 today, on April fool’s day at 84250kms.
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Post by caroline on Apr 3, 2018 20:48:20 GMT 11
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Post by jacky on Apr 3, 2018 22:09:45 GMT 11
It seems that Nissan has difficulties in keeping bigger batteries in the healthy temperature range without active cooling. Nissan programmed the 40kWh Leaf's BMS to slow down fast charging on high battery temperature to reduce degradation and caused #RapidGate. I worry the faster degradation due to high temperature will make the new 40kWh battery degradation worse than 30kWh. If Nissan failed to handle it properly, it will be a disaster. According to Bjørn Nyland, the 60 kWh Leaf will be using LG Chem cells with active cooling. I hope Nissan Australia will import this version so that at least Australian has the choice.
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Post by iamlsd on Apr 4, 2018 23:33:32 GMT 11
Well we have just lost our 2nd bar on our leaf. We got the car new in December 2013 and we only have the one car. I didn't notice exactly when the 2nd bar went but the odometer reading when I did notice was a bit over 59600 kms. I mostly ride my e-bike or 50 cc scooter to work and the leaf is used as the daily run about for my family. The GOM is currently indicating an ambitious 136 km range when fully charged but we rarely go on trips longer than 70 to 80 kms and now there are more charging options around I'm still comfortable with Leaf as our only car.
I've never got around to getting leaf spy or keeping any stats on our leaf but 2 bars over 4 years in Adelaide which gets its fair share of very hot days seems ok to me. It is driven daily but probably not many kms per day. It is still in excellent condition even though we've had people crash into us twice - very happy with the repair job on both occasions and paid for by the other party's insurance. I'd be very interested in 2 to 3 years of putting in a replacement battery pack if it was close to $2000 as all the family still really enjoy driving in the car.
My wife had a chance encounter with a Tesla Model X driver at the combined Tesla supercharger and fast charging station in town he took her for quick trip around the block while our car was charging. She loved the car and he told he had 3 Telsas! Wish I was there would love a drive in a Tesla but the price is way out of my range. Even the model 3 would be tricky as we paid $40,000 (over a 3 year payment plan) for the leaf and I doubt the model 3 will be less then that.
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Post by stewartm on Apr 5, 2018 11:58:46 GMT 11
Day one to current shows a picture that doesn't represent "80% in five years" in the owners manual. 43500 km First month; Current;
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Post by rusdy on Apr 6, 2018 13:05:01 GMT 11
... I mostly ride my e-bike or 50 cc scooter to work and the leaf is used as the daily run about for my family. ... ... would love a drive in a Tesla but the price is way out of my range... Same here. I deliberately choose a single EV household with me using the eBike, as a result of juggling the balance between less fossil fuel use, cost, and convenience. I didn't expect for the Leaf battery depleted so quickly either. Battery replacement is definitely not going to happen cheaply (less than 5k AUD) for the Leaf in the near future. Luckily for my household, the only time I need it for long distance is for family holiday. It does come to a point of inconvenient for the holiday travel, as I need at least 13.5kWh usable between fast chargers (here in WA) keeping up with speed limit. Leaf Spy becomes a must for me for the long travel. As the Leaf GOM is quite conservative and alarming quite early (at 4kWh remaining) when the battery is low, causing a great distress for the driver . In constrast, the LeafSpy gives me actual kWh remaining, and user can enter manually kWh/km for the remaining distance calculation. It prove to be a very useful tool last time I went for holiday (was not possible using the GoM), as I can adjust my driving style depending on the kWh left, head wind, etc. Judging from the market, looks like I'm stuck with my Leaf for quite sometimes (at least another 3 years). I don't think, in 3 years, Australia will have any EV under AUD30k with at least 24kWh battery (so I don't need to adjust my driving style due to low battery remaining). Also, within the same time frame (3 years), Australia (especially here in WA) will not have more fast chargers. Until then, I need to caress the Leaf!
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Post by parislord on Apr 15, 2018 15:25:48 GMT 11
Hi all, thanks of this thread. I've been going through it trying to find out whether replacement batteries are possible in Oz. I'm considering buying a used 2012 Leaf from Brisbane and getting it trucked to Canberra. The dealer, of course, claims I can get a replacement for the battery, which is at 83% today. Canberra's only going to get hotter summers, so that will affect the life of that battery. I don't want to pay $23K on a car that becomes a brick within three years. On Twitter I see that Nissan Australia hasn't helped other Leaf owners with battery replacement. Am weighing up taking the plunge on a used Leaf and chancing my arm on a replacement, or waiting until the Hyundai Ioniq or maybe the 2018 Leaf.
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Post by rusdy on Apr 15, 2018 21:59:03 GMT 11
I don't want to pay $23K on a car that becomes a brick within three years. If you can afford the Ioniq, in my opinion, definitely wait for it. If not, if the wait still possible (I.e. hold on to your current car longer), then once new EVs start to roll in, those leaf in dealerships will have a price crash!
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Post by stewartm on Apr 16, 2018 12:01:41 GMT 11
The Zoe with 400km range is worth it. Not as good as the leaf, but a nice Ev never the less. I own both in France.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 14:49:08 GMT 11
Stewartm when is higher batt pack Zoe launching in France and aus ?
Seems that 41kwh zoe can plug into Tesla 3 phase desti chargers without having to set legacy mode on the chargers
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Post by stewartm on Apr 16, 2018 20:34:06 GMT 11
Australia has the 400km pack in their Zoe's. They are available for order now, 0410712632 Carissa from Renault will take an order, takes 4-6 weeks. The tesla chargers do work directly with them @22kw. In France they will retro fit your Zoe with the new high capacity pack. Same physical size. Both have forced air cooling, it's a bit noisy on fast charge, but that's the only time.
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Post by empowerrepower on Apr 17, 2018 12:26:49 GMT 11
Hi all, thanks of this thread. I've been going through it trying to find out whether replacement batteries are possible in Oz. I'm considering buying a used 2012 Leaf from Brisbane and getting it trucked to Canberra. The dealer, of course, claims I can get a replacement for the battery, which is at 83% today. Canberra's only going to get hotter summers, so that will affect the life of that battery. I don't want to pay $23K on a car that becomes a brick within three years. On Twitter I see that Nissan Australia hasn't helped other Leaf owners with battery replacement. Am weighing up taking the plunge on a used Leaf and chancing my arm on a replacement, or waiting until the Hyundai Ioniq or maybe the 2018 Leaf. Hi, good to be doing your research, as dealers are not always totally honest. Nissan doesn't currently offer replacement batteries in Oz unless it is under warranty, although they do so in other markets. Whether this will change in the future is unclear. I think it would be possible under Australian consumer law to say that a battery should be available to purchase, just as other car components are. Check when the car for sale was first registered, as it will have a five year battery warranty from that time - if the battery loses four bars before the warranty is up, Nissan will replace it. My car, bought March 2015, has lost three bars (85-90km range now), and I expect the fourth bar will go before the warranty is up, and the Qld heat probably does it no favours. There are more EVs coming, but I'm not sure any of them will be below $50K (the on-road cost of the Zoe), so a used Leaf is a very affordable option. Also, living in Canberra, the amount of km you drive may fit well for a car with a limited range. Other than the battery issues, a Leaf is a really great car to drive. P.S. Ask that dealer to specify exactly how much a replacement battery would cost, and put it in writing for you on Nissan letterhead - good way to test whether he's talking out of the top of his hat (plus if you get such a document, please share it here). And if he mentions the possibility of replacing cells in the battery rather than a whole battery, Nissan tried that with Lesmando's car in Bris, it didn't work, and now they just replace whole batteries.
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Post by parislord on Apr 18, 2018 22:51:17 GMT 11
Hi empowerrepower thanks for your reply. The dealer informed me tonight that the car had sold. Good tip to ask about the battery replacement specifics, and to get it on a letterhead. A 2012 Leaf driver told me on Twitter yesterday that Nissan Australia offered a new battery for $30K and warned him against trying to source an overseas battery for $5K, saying it wouldn't be compatible. "Old Leaf with new battery worth less than the new battery. So Leaf = throwaway car. Violates basic tenets of sustainability." I'm going to wait until newer models arrive this year.
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Post by rusdy on Apr 19, 2018 12:30:08 GMT 11
... A 2012 Leaf driver told me on Twitter yesterday that Nissan Australia offered a new battery for $30K... I can't find an emoji with bigger jaw drop.
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Post by EVangelist on Apr 20, 2018 19:38:51 GMT 11
... A 2012 Leaf driver told me on Twitter yesterday that Nissan Australia offered a new battery for $30K... I can't find an emoji with bigger jaw drop. Indeed. That is beyond ridiculous. There are companies which re-pack legacy battery packs with new cells - but for commercial and household equipment and appliances. I wonder if any of them would take on a re-pack of a LEAF battery? I suppose the removal and reinstallation of the pack is not a trivial thing to do. But if they were game to take it on and you could get the pack to them, surely they would charge less than $30k!
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Post by brunohill on Apr 22, 2018 21:54:53 GMT 11
Apr 18, 2018 21:51:17 GMT 10 parislord said:
A 2012 Leaf driver told me on Twitter yesterday that Nissan Australia offered a new battery for $30K and warned him against trying to source an overseas battery for $5K, saying it wouldn't be compatible. "Old Leaf with new battery worth less than the new battery. So Leaf = throwaway car. Violates basic tenets of sustainability." I'm going to wait until newer models arrive this year.
Are you sure it wasn't just a salesmen try to sell them another car? $30k? You can buy replacement cells to rebuild it at Bunnings for $14,000 or for $18000 make yourself a 30KW one. The $5K ones, are $5K US, and they are different, they have the new more heat tolerant chemistry and for about $100 you get a new cable to fit the older LEAFs. Why would it all be 4 times the price in Australia than it is anywhere else in the world?
Becoming a throw away car could be a problem though. They maybe valued in Australia, but with big government subsidies overseas, 2nd hand ones sell for very little. If there is no overseas market for new replacement parts (because of cost verse car value) the Australia market isn't big enough to justify supply.
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Post by antigas on Apr 23, 2018 14:21:15 GMT 11
Just to add info for everyone, I've lost my third bar now too. Location is Brisbane, bought new in Jan 2015 from Moorooka Nissan, 31k on the odo. Had it at Nissan a few days ago for a service and ?Mark who deals with the leaf brought it up before I could when I picked the car up. Said he had 5 cars waiting on packs from Japan, longest has been waiting since January of this year. Said they need the car for two days to run tests & diagnostics after which they order the battery replacement from Nissan Japan. He said they are replacing the whole pack and not individual cells which is good. Now I just need that last bar to disappear and happy days.
We are a two car family, leaf and Prius C. Very tempted by the Kona EV and whats known thus far. Just waiting on offical pricing but will probably trade the Prius for the Kona when its released meaning we are an all EV household. And if we can get the last bar to disappear on the Nissan then it will see me through for another few years seen as I'm used to the range limitation at which point I'm guessing and hoping we will be spoilt for choice by more EV's in the same price range.
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Post by empowerrepower on Apr 24, 2018 12:28:59 GMT 11
Hi Antigas, I bought my Leaf in March 2015 from Moorooka Nissan, and lost my third bar late last year. I'm expecting to drop the fourth bar within warranty, given that I've lost a bar each year so far. Mark told me that the replacement battery currently being put into Leafs at Moorooka Nissan doesn't require the extra frame/support that the improved lizard chemistry batteries apparently need to fit into a 2012 Leaf, so I think it must be the first version of the battery that they are fitting.
Two things: I hope that by the time we get ours replaced, those batteries have run out, and we get lizard chemistry. Secondly, even if we get the earlier replacement battery, I expect that my range will be better, as the battery is unlikely to have been sitting out in the sun for several years before purchase. I've never had more than 100 km range on my car, so don't believe that the car battery was in top condition when I got it, despite having 12 bars.
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Post by Feng on Apr 24, 2018 18:25:57 GMT 11
That's interesting, it hadn't crossed my mind that we'd still get older style battery packs that degrade like the original packs. When I look at photos of my car's pack being swapped I can see the warranty pack is identical to the original. I believe the newer packs are black and have a redesigned service disconnect plug.
All this time I thought I had a lizard pack. What if they're just refurbishing cases and electronics and using new modules? It wouldn't make sense for them to have an inventory of old packs for warranty since there was a period of time where 2010-2012 owners were getting lizard packs with the mounting brackets under warranty.
I'm slightly disappointed if mine's not a lizard pack but still glad I was still able to get it replaced. The part number on my invoice was 295B0-3NA7A which after Googling is a "2011-12 BATTERY & COMPONENTS LITHIUM BATTERY". I wouldn't say I'm in denial about it but how could they continue to manufacture inferior cells after the lizard pack came out?
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Post by brunohill on Jun 5, 2018 1:53:01 GMT 11
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Post by jeffthewalker on Jul 22, 2018 18:45:54 GMT 11
Bar 3 down today at 49,000.
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Post by mike on Jul 25, 2018 0:21:57 GMT 11
[quote author=" mike " source="/post/14217/thread" Will be interesting to see how quickly they can get the battery in and replaced...I'm not in any rush as the Leaf still meets 95% of our family's needs. Northside Nissan informed me that my battery warranty claim was accepted. They estimate 2-3 months for deliver of the new battery. Continuing to enjoy the Leaf for most daily driving. [/quote] Followed up with Northside Nissan. They said Nissan Australia is now showing the delivery date of the new battery as September 24th. That will be over six months since the warranty replacement was approved. The parts guy did not know what was causing the delay. Might lose the 5th bar before the new battery arrives. Leaf still meeting most of our needs, but having to charge at night and during the day to have a bit of reserve for side trips...realistic range at full charge is 60-70km now.
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Post by Feng on Jul 25, 2018 12:37:49 GMT 11
Pretty sweet to get a few more months out of your old pack before getting a new one!
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Post by rusdy on Jul 30, 2018 12:21:24 GMT 11
Bar 3 down today at 49,000. Mine is imminent. Currently sitting at 72.4-ish percent (according to LeafSpy), so the display is about to catch up. Oh, I've just found out the 2012 Nissan battery wiki is now loaded with good info. As I suspected, calendar aging is the biggest factor, then distance travelled (hence, charging cycles) comes second. This explains our Leafs (Oz owners) popping third bar roughly same time despite variation in distance travelled (unless you had a bad batch, or been clocking up crazy kms like Feng!). Mine is average compared to other Leafs, according to the wiki: Attachments:
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Post by jeffthewalker on Jul 31, 2018 6:31:37 GMT 11
Bar 3 down today at 49,000. Mine is imminent. Currently sitting at 72.4-ish percent (according to LeafSpy), so the display is about to catch up. Oh, I've just found out the 2012 Nissan battery wiki is now loaded with good info. As I suspected, calendar aging is the biggest factor, then distance travelled (hence, charging cycles) comes second. This explains our Leafs (Oz owners) popping third bar roughly same time despite variation in distance travelled (unless you had a bad batch, or been clocking up crazy kms like Feng!).I just checked and my SOH is 69.82% and Hx is 47.87 (LEAFSpy). I can still just about squeeze 100Km (real distance) driving at 70k/h.
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Post by jeffthewalker on Jul 31, 2018 6:35:30 GMT 11
Mine is imminent. Currently sitting at 72.4-ish percent (according to LeafSpy), so the display is about to catch up. Oh, I've just found out the 2012 Nissan battery wiki is now loaded with good info. As I suspected, calendar aging is the biggest factor, then distance travelled (hence, charging cycles) comes second. This explains our Leafs (Oz owners) popping third bar roughly same time despite variation in distance travelled (unless you had a bad batch, or been clocking up crazy kms like Feng!).I just checked and my SOH is 69.82% and Hx is 47.87 (LEAFSpy). I can still just about squeeze 100Km (real distance) driving at 70k/h.
I just checked and my SOH is 69.82% and Hx is 47.87 (LEAFSpy). I can still just about squeeze 100Km (real distance) driving at 70k/h.
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