Complaint with Nissan Australia

[seb]

Dear fellow LEAFers.
I had a bad egg with a second hand 2012 Nissan Leaf showing a healthy 11/12 bar battery, where the "power limiting" mode would kick with 3 bars.
If anyone has ever experienced "power limiting" mode, it's like driving a 2-horse power car up a hill.  And it's supposed to warn you that you need to take the car to a charger first.

Although the car (allegedly) has an 11/12 battery health, one battery cell is borderline, which I believe is unbalancing the battery.
Someone posted the same issue (and fixed it himself!) on the US Leaf Forum.

Unfortunately, Nissan Australia initially told me that they couldnt see nothing wrong with the car, after looking at the battery cell levels.
They told me it was safe to drive on the motorway over the phone; I challenged them on this whether they were saying that it was safe to drive my family in the motorway, and said yes (!).
I diligently wrote down what they said and sent and email to myself for timestamp. The call was also recorded (they asked me for my permission to do so).
They later agreed that the battery was in fact faulty, and are currently replacing the faulty module. 

I believe they didn't want to admit the car battery was faulty because that would mean they would have to fix it at their own cost, but instead they put me and my family at risk.

I put this with NSW Comsumer Protection, but they have not responded to them within the stipulated time-frame.
I'll be seeking legal advice and probably pursue them at the tribunal.

Has anyone taken a case/complaint against Nissan Australia about their Leaf?

[foggy]

Have taken a slam dunk case about a sham Parraglider instructor to the Queensland Civil and administrative Tribunal. A Clerk warned all the people attending that day NOT to expect Justice. We all i think assumed this to be reassurance that half of us were going to be disappointed. I didn't realise how literal he was being! There was NO account given at all to the evidence i had assembled. The national governing body`s expert i had standing by his phone to testify,A video of the "instructor" saying the opposite of what he was saying in court, 5 pages of supporting documents/records. They did not even follow their OWN rules of evidence submission! The ?Judge? admitted to knowing nothing about paragliding, but without even looking down to the documents under his chin found against me? This is not my sour grapes, i have confirmed all this with a solicitor. The QCAT system is readily described by lawyers off the record, as a wild west environment, with no reliable outcome ,and that was absolutely my experience. I have no sure knowledge that NSW is different or the same, but my confidence in any Australian law that claims to protect consumers is shaped by this and other experience as bad. May be Freemason membership couldn`t hurt?

[praxidice]

Your experience with the Queensland kangaroo tribunal is not unique, in fact all kangaroo tribunals in Australia are equally corrupt. There are numerous issues which I won't go into here, all of which both sides of government and the rats & mice parties know about but there is no will to change anything. The media is threatened with repercussions if they expose kangaroo tribunals and there is no entity in Australia prepared to lift a finger against them. I have won one of the precious few landmark victories against QCAT by using a range of tricks and I am only too happy to assist any victim of these official crime gangs who is determined to the point of obsession with beating them.

[brunohill]

It's fairly simple really. Who ever is prepared to, or has the resources to pay the maximum amount on legal services will win. Most people don't want to lose their family home just to prove a point.

[seb]

brunohill summarised it well.
A specialised lawyer in car trials with QCAT at $500/hour will get you through to win the case. They take advantage of the lack of preparedness of the courts, know the ropes, and nearly always win.
You'd be looking at 15k for the process.
But essentially, the benefit of taking the manufacturer to court is very low for a car. They will simply refund legal costs and depreciation on the car during the process, if you win.
There is no civil liability to speak of for QCAT. If you are serious, you need to class-action lawsuit, but then that's properly expensive, very time consuming, and you need other people with the same problem.
So essentially, irresponsible behaviour individually, would have to be treated as a civil case; not at the QCAT.

If you want to sue someone, go after the dealer you bought from.
If you bought privately, good luck.

I gave up on it. Had a journo and everything lined up.

[seb]

Oh, and you are not covered for any second-hand car worth more than $40k. So I would be very careful when, e.g. buying a second hand Telsa.
If it poops on you, it does REALLY poop on you.

[foggy]

This is a cut and paste from the first paragraph of a 2015 article in "autoblog magazine?"https://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/20/2011-2012-nissan-leaf-class-action-lawsuit-settled/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIQ9Quo4jZxd5QyssCyM5vj5CDQyEQWxb18J6-8nhd_sJIdVV-XMIOX2tR2PD_TzxwyFxHh8oCMfupS9GZQw5zSqM1mkbU8H2_mL1NIJ-2Uc-jO7DBUbfC5PvYJJiWAA_PKkS6tlKMH54KIoryUNv1NIroV9mglkVuVrJ0Jopr6q


In 2012, a group of Nissan Leaf owners sued the automaker in a class-action lawsuit over the " wilting Leaf" issue. That describes the steadily decreasing battery capacity of the electric vehicle's battery pack, which didn't line up with drivers' expectations. At the time, Nissan said the lawsuit was without merit but the legal wranglings continued. A new, $24-million settlement will give Leaf owners a new (not repaired) battery if their current pack drops down to fewer than nine bars of energy capacity. There are also options for 90 days of free charging at some of the No Charge To Charge locations or, if they don't live near any of those, a $50 check.

[foggy]

It is a matter of public record that Nissan sold the Leaf here exactly the way they sold it in the American circumstances above. Can`t speak for everyone with certainty, but i assume we were all told the expected life was TEN years when we bought them 2012.

I think Nissan knows we don`t have the capacities the Americans have to compel them to SUPPORT the Leaf Brand here.

What unused capacities do we have?

We certainly can continue as we are. That is the capacity to be interpreted as a silent majority who thinks throwing out a perfectly functioning vehicle because the battery is stuffed is just the way things are in Australia. Nissan have told me this in writing! We could also encourage Nissans Behaviour and attitudes by buying whatever they sell (2020 models or rebuilt 2nd hand battery packs with 12 month warranties). Throw away the old and buy a new one. {2020 LEAF} The actual costs can be cleverly obscured in the new car figures on the paperwork, and in 7 years maybe it won`t happen again. put it all behind you.

As feeble as the alternatives may be, I vote for EVERY other option. In George Bush logic,any owner who is not complaining to NISSAN is supporting them. Any body who has NOT complained to the ACCC needs to ask: How the ACCC views Foggy`s complaint if he is the only one making it?

Conversely, I told the ACCC that all you have the SAME cars with the same issue. complaint 299225. They wrote back to me to say they are only interested in NATIONAL issues. By this logic i am meant to think NISSAN is a queensland company?  The additional suggestion about QCAT does not rate mentioning. 

Everyone who complains to the ACCC, but especially those who don`t come from QLD, will help to say two things: 1 this is an AUSTRALIAN issue! 2 it is a consumer protection issue, an ACCC issue, or at least that is YOUR view as an Australian who pays the taxes they consume.

Please mention ; MY report number 299225 and the American case that was decided about the very same issues with the same car sold at the same time.