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Post by stewartm on Jan 15, 2018 15:00:42 GMT 11
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Post by iamlsd on Jan 15, 2018 22:29:31 GMT 11
Yes was not impressed with that news item - no costings for health impacts of tail pipe emissions to the air + water and soil contamination. I bet most ICE car owners aren't aware of what is involved in dealing with the pollution of a petrol station - www.epa.nsw.gov.au/resources/clm/2008552ServStations.pdf. I wonder how many service stations comply? |
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Post by rusdy on Jan 16, 2018 13:19:50 GMT 11
... Seriously stupid $hit. .... I have to sing kumbaya lots of time when I read comments in facebook (and news outlet) regarding people's general ignorance when it comes to the cost of road network and who pays them. Understandable though, who would want to research one's established opinion? I long for the day when general public wakes up to the fact that 20th century way of mobility (i.e. personal transport using 1 to 2 tonne of metal) can't be sustained any longer. It's simply too expensive to both tax-payers and environment (i.e. future generation). If the growing pain (of road network) already felt in 20-ish million people in Australia, imagine 7.5 billion people trying to copy this exact model. Australia is indeed facing a huge challenge by being so dispersed and strong legacy of car culture (same with US). Alas, the government must listen to the crowd as well to stay in power. Back to my (e-)bicycle and continue being hated on the road...  |
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 16, 2018 15:15:19 GMT 11
Just how much does the Muppet show figure they are loosing?
So in theory, the more crud that a car splatters out into the air it should be taxed less.
Anyway, I broke down last week. Aparrently the union of red flag before the motorised carriage people lost their box.
Ah well, another great step backwards for Australia. Well done, now we appear to be even more like carrot crunchers to the 21st century world.
Tesla owners have already been salted heavily on the tax when the car was artificially high priced to dissuade.
Like most incoherent mutterings on terrestrial state TV, it'll probably just be an attempt at ratings adjustments.
One had to bear in mind that TV careers aren't necessarily based upon knowledge.
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Post by lesmando24 on Jan 16, 2018 15:56:46 GMT 11
It is not an issue right now as there are not enough EVs to make any dent in the finances. They should focus on bringing the emission standards to Euro 6 so start reducing pollution.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 16, 2018 19:15:42 GMT 11
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Post by chuq on Jan 16, 2018 23:08:40 GMT 11
Interestingly enough I decided to find out what an excise was, why it is different to a tax, and...
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Post by jacky on Jan 17, 2018 7:16:20 GMT 11
It is well known the two major parties are not EV friendly. They oil industry supporters made them to slow down EV adoption.
This time seems to be targeting on Tesla. My guess is that Tesla is the driving force to make all major auto-makers to start producing EVs and its cars are the best selling EV in Australia.
I am really surprised I heard nothing from Greens on the idea of taxing EVs.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 17, 2018 9:51:29 GMT 11
Possibly another "convenient".
Tesla get the hump, pull out of Aus, and low and behold, a charging network is left behind.
Or, having read the blurb, sensationalism, aka Journalism.
Like in the 1500's, keep a population ignorant, and they are easy to 'control'. Factor in the wet string NBN antique, limit the access, feed carefully draughed propaganda.
There's no bounds here.
Nothing much has changed in two hundred years, just the wrappers... with Eco on it, it's just what they want to hear.
I know of many that avoid the sludge machine of media here, and over time, many are getting more.
I'm with StuartM on this.
Interesting tailoring of the web based junk created by the editors twelve chimpanzees. I guess they feel that people take notice. Reminds me of a TV series aptly named Drop the Dead Donkey.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 17, 2018 10:03:40 GMT 11
Outdated, and fudged even then. No one factored other easy takes into the figures. I guess no one as blind as those that don't want to. There's no real reason the have to spend anything on roads though. We have a less than 2km stretch of easy road close by that's been sedately being updated... over more than 7 years. I wonder where the money is going, as it's not going to be finished seemingly, just keep pouring money somewhere, who really knows. More fiddles than the London Philharmonic orchestra in roads, and mates that kinda-own them. |
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Post by rusdy on Jan 17, 2018 12:02:55 GMT 11
Interestingly enough I decided to find out what an excise was, why it is different to a tax, and... Disappointingly, the fuel excise doesn't deter people enough to use ICE then... |
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Post by iamlsd on Jan 23, 2018 14:37:25 GMT 11
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2018 10:36:50 GMT 11
I'm very late to this; but I think we should be paying road tax for EVs. We use the road infra the same as petrol cars do, and not paying the fuel excise is effectively a subsidy for EVs, just like pretty much every diesel owner doesn't pay it either.
I think we should have a smart location and klm based system for every registered car so the users of the roads can pay for them. I guess like the nbn there will be a need to subsidise rural vs city roads.
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EVtricity
Half Charge
Posts: 66
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by EVtricity on May 8, 2018 8:50:14 GMT 11
Every car (at least in NSW) pays motor vehicle tax in their vehicle registration - $270 last year in the case of my Nissan Leaf. I'm not willing to pay an EV-only road tax until petrol vehicles start paying for the health, social and environmental costs of air pollution and climate change (I charge almost exclusively from my own solar panels).
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Post by empowerrepower on May 8, 2018 11:08:56 GMT 11
I'm very late to this; but I think we should be paying road tax for EVs. We use the road infra the same as petrol cars do, and not paying the fuel excise is effectively a subsidy for EVs, just like pretty much every diesel owner doesn't pay it either. I think we should have a smart location and klm based system for every registered car so the users of the roads can pay for them. I guess like the nbn there will be a need to subsidise rural vs city roads. Hmmm, interesting... just a few thoughts though. I do pay GST on the electricity that I use (my solar system doesn't even cover my household usage). Petrol excise goes into general revenue, it isn't particularly used for road costs. Road usage systems make some sense but are apparently politically difficult to implement. They could easily be discriminatory, not just for country people, but for all those who live way out in the suburbs and travel long distances to work because housing is so very expensive in the inner city. I recently read that someone living in the outer suburbs of Sydney and commuting to the city by car could pay 9% of their total income on toll roads alone! |
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Post by rusdy on May 8, 2018 12:05:07 GMT 11
I'm very late to this; but I think we should be paying road tax for EVs. We use the road infra the same as petrol cars do, and not paying the fuel excise is effectively a subsidy for EVs, just like pretty much every diesel owner doesn't pay it either. I think we should have a smart location and klm based system for every registered car so the users of the roads can pay for them. I guess like the nbn there will be a need to subsidise rural vs city roads. .... They could easily be discriminatory, not just for country people, but for all those who live way out in the suburbs and travel long distances to work because housing is so very expensive in the inner city... There are 2 kind of separate problems with this. For the first one (those who need to travel far), this is actually a very good reason why 'pay per use' system for road (i.e. road toll) even more attractive. If the cost of road infrastructure is passed to user, there will be good domino effect: - Less demand for far flung suburb, which leads to:
- Less road infrastructure need to be built, which leads to:
- Less tax payers money required to build and maintain road (which is HUGE), and;
- reduce carbon footprint of a city by building denser city;
- Less time required for people to city centre (does anyone have childhood dream, "I wish I spend more time commuting?");
Yes, I know lots of people loathe dense city (other than affordability). However, I think this is mainly due to Australian public haven't seen good example of dense city well built. Imagine well built dense city that holds delicate balance of green space, sustainable transport (bicycle and/or public), etc. Heavy haulage can be transported via rail (i.e. much cheaper).
For those who genuinely want to live isolated, cheaper road (i.e. dirt road) can serve them well (since no need huge traffic on them). So, yes, I totally agree with road toll system. Human psychology have not serve ourselves well, i.e. we don't see the unseen cost of road infrastructure. I do love cars, but maybe, just maybe, that should be moved to 'entertainment' activity (such as horse riding).Now, to the second genuine problem, i.e. expensive inner city housing: I should put a disclaimer that I'm not an expert. Maybe, my total guess here, the economic system need to dramatically change, so that those who already have capitals (i.e. money and assets) don't hog the wealth in the inner city, i.e. driving everyone else out from the city and enjoying their passive income (for example, empty apartments during Grenfel tower fire). But this in itself is a huge topic  . |
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Post by stewartm on May 8, 2018 15:04:18 GMT 11
Interesting in France, registration is €75 ($140) per two years, and the Roadworthy costs €60 ($115).
No other taxes...
Charge points are generally free, and everywhere.
Also €8000 to €10000 off the prices of new EV's
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