|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 5, 2017 23:08:54 GMT 11
Now that my Portable Setec Chademo is working I was thinking of planning some day trips. In particular I'd like to go down south this Saturday with my family.
At the same time I could contact some Showground operators and see if they will let me use their 3 phase.
I was looking at starting with either Camden, Menangle, or Picton.
Then Mossvale, which Gregleaf and friends put on plugshare recently.
Then either:
come home via Kangaroo valley and North Wollongong.
or
go another step out to Goulburn showground. And then come home.
Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by Feng on Jun 5, 2017 23:44:24 GMT 11
Canberra!
|
|
|
|
Post by alison on Jun 6, 2017 8:18:03 GMT 11
I have messaged you a thought on this.
|
|
|
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 11, 2018 13:08:10 GMT 11
What feedback do people have regarding portable chademo units ? I understand there used to be one at Springers Lawnton but when I asked about it last Saturday, no staff knew anything about it. A post in plugshare by a Leaf owner I believe is an Ozleaf regular mentioned the unit.
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 12, 2018 12:11:47 GMT 11
The portable Chademo is normally carried in your car. I think you are referring to Stewart who is a member of Ozleaf. The Springers people would be unaware of Stewart's Portable Chademo, unless they went and had a look while he was charging.
I too have a portable Chademo, and it lives up to expectations. I carry it in my car's boot when I go on day trips. I've had my share of problems with it, as have most of us, but I don't regret buying it. I have been able to travel more than 500 km in one day because of it. It just gives me a whole lot more options for where I can go, and how long it will take me.
Cheers,
Mark
|
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 12, 2018 21:56:16 GMT 11
What exactly do you mean by ' I've had my share of problems with it' and what was involved in resolving the problems ? Hopefully there are ways to fix the things in Australia as it would be a royal PIA returning it to China every time it went wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 14, 2018 14:05:28 GMT 11
What exactly do you mean by ' I've had my share of problems with it' and what was involved in resolving the problems ? Hopefully there are ways to fix the things in Australia as it would be a royal PIA returning it to China every time it went wrong. It didn't work when delivered. I had to send it back to china to get it sorted. I had to pay to send it back to China, they paid to send it back to me. It took a couple of months before I got it back and working. That was more than a year ago, and I haven't had any other problems. I use it about once a week on average. There is a lot more 3-phase power around than you'd think, but I can also use it on type-2 plugs with an adaptor, and type-1 plugs with a different adaptor. So I can pretty much charge anywhere at much more than twice the speed of the normal Leaf onboard charger. |
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 14, 2018 15:46:30 GMT 11
Thanks for the update. I had the impression that the Setec developed bugs with use but it is encouraging to hear that once sorted, it appeared to be fine. Seems there is something lacking in quality control though if a crook unit was supplied initially. That 'twice the speed on the onboard charger' is what I need. Mitsubishis have both a piddling little battery and a gutless wonder onboard charger, however I need to make do until 2018 NV2000s mit 40kw battery are available from Japan. I've yet to find many 3 phase outlets but still looking. Presumably one needs the 32a 415v to get maximum results. Without a portable chademo, any journeys relying on 15a 240v and / or Tesla destination and / or regular 15a J1772 are a painful event. According to QLD government blurb, all the Electric highway chademos are in place but that isn't the case. One that I really need at Helensvale won't be installed til maybe the end of 2018.
Did the type 1 / type 2 / etc adaptors come with the unit or were they $300 odd each on top of the portable chademo ? I wonder if its worth getting into the cable / adaptor business as I get the impression some people are doing very well out of making up the things.
|
|
|
|
Post by stewartm on Jun 14, 2018 18:39:32 GMT 11
Yes that was my wife using our portable at spiringers solar, just their three phase power. Took 55 mins to charge from two bars left. Will be selling mine and the leaf later in the year as I'm moving to France. Also two Siemens level two chargers with it.
I also have a four pin 10 amp three phase adaptor cable for the smaller outlets, just derate the charge rate to 7kW when using a 10 amp, three phase
|
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 15, 2018 8:55:04 GMT 11
I'd be interested in the Setec and possibly the adaptor if I don't strike a deal with Setec or Electway before you are ready to sell yours, although I'm yet to locate any 3 phase outlets in the areas I travel.
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 17, 2018 2:34:13 GMT 11
Thanks for the update. I had the impression that the Setec developed bugs with use but it is encouraging to hear that once sorted, it appeared to be fine. Seems there is something lacking in quality control though if a crook unit was supplied initially. That 'twice the speed on the onboard charger' is what I need. Mitsubishis have both a piddling little battery and a gutless wonder onboard charger, however I need to make do until 2018 NV2000s mit 40kw battery are available from Japan. I've yet to find many 3 phase outlets but still looking. Presumably one needs the 32a 415v to get maximum results. Without a portable chademo, any journeys relying on 15a 240v and / or Tesla destination and / or regular 15a J1772 are a painful event. According to QLD government blurb, all the Electric highway chademos are in place but that isn't the case. One that I really need at Helensvale won't be installed til maybe the end of 2018. Did the type 1 / type 2 / etc adaptors come with the unit or were they $300 odd each on top of the portable chademo ? I wonder if its worth getting into the cable / adaptor business as I get the impression some people are doing very well out of making up the things.
Hi Praxidice, I had a look on plugshare and the tesla destination charger at "Runaway Bay Marina", which is close to Helensvale, is 32 amp 3-phase. I can't tell if it's set to legacy-mode, because only teslas are checked in. If you are over that way check it out with your adaptor. If it works then it is set to legacy-mode and you should be able to get 32 Amp 3-phase out of it, with the right adaptor. Of course you would also need a Setec. No adaptors came with my Setec. I either bought it, someone made it up, or I made it up myself. |
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 17, 2018 7:58:13 GMT 11
Thanks for the input
I went to Runaway Bay Marina last week but at that time I wasn't aware of the two missing pins issue, consequently I couldn't get a connection. I believe it is a 3 phase point as I was on the phone to Bob from Gelco at the time and he advised that it was. The (Gelco) Tesla to 3 pin adaptor worked fine at the Toll depot Molendinar (single phase Tesla).
Whilst Setec assure me that it is straightforward to configure both single phase and three phase input to a portable chademo, they are not as open as I'd like about exactly what is involved. That will need to change before I shell out the money. I can't imagine anything less than 32 amp single phase or three phase working. That would entail adaptors to Tesla, Type 2 and regular three phase connectors as well as finding three phase outlets I can use.
From what I've seen of single and three phase Tesla connections, it seems like the charging point must somehow convert three phase input to single phase as there aren't sufficient pins for three phases .... or is there some other witchcraft I don't understand ?
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 18, 2018 0:18:32 GMT 11
Thanks for the input
I went to Runaway Bay Marina last week but at that time I wasn't aware of the two missing pins issue, consequently I couldn't get a connection. I believe it is a 3 phase point as I was on the phone to Bob from Gelco at the time and he advised that it was. The (Gelco) Tesla to 3 pin adaptor worked fine at the Toll depot Molendinar (single phase Tesla).
Whilst Setec assure me that it is straightforward to configure both single phase and three phase input to a portable chademo, they are not as open as I'd like about exactly what is involved. That will need to change before I shell out the money. I can't imagine anything less than 32 amp single phase or three phase working. That would entail adaptors to Tesla, Type 2 and regular three phase connectors as well as finding three phase outlets I can use.
From what I've seen of single and three phase Tesla connections, it seems like the charging point must somehow convert three phase input to single phase as there aren't sufficient pins for three phases .... or is there some other witchcraft I don't understand ?
Praxidice, In Australia Tesla (Model S, X, and in future 3) all use Mennekes (also called Type-2) plugs. So this is what Tesla's "Destination chargers" use. You can find plenty of information about this plug standard. It has a total of 7 pins. They are Phase A, Phase B, Phase C, Neutral, Earth, CP, and PP. It can be used to supply either 3-phase, or single phase. When set up to provide single phase some of the pins may be missing. If you want to know how to set up a Setec to work with both single and 3-phase have a look at This threadand start reading from June 5, 2017. If you join the Setec chargers owners group on facebook and go to June 30, 2017 you can find some more detail and a video I did. Cheers, Mark |
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 18, 2018 8:06:11 GMT 11
I'd seen that 2017 thread but at the time I didn't think it contained sufficient detail about the three to single phase adaptor for me to create one, however I'll revisit it again later today. Setec is apparently aware that some people need both single and three phase input and stated in one email to me that it is straightforward, without going into detail. I'm still hopeful that Setec will supply a unit already configured with both inputs but time will tell. No doubt with time I could wade through the available info to complete this myself but I'm always reluctant to take on additional projects when I already have umpty-zillion others on the go. Quite often I find its more sensible to pay someone to do whatever for me than to put the task on my already far too extensive 'must do' list. This sounds like a job for one of my sparky associates. Thanks for the link to the Setec group, I wasn't aware there was such a thing.
To date I haven't had any joy with finding 32 amp three phase connections in critical locations but at least I know now where would be ideal and I can chase up a few possibilities. If I can adapt the Tesla and Type 2 outlets to a Setec, that would help.
My trip from Brisbane northside to home last night is a perfect example of why I desperately need a different approach to charging. Left at just after 4pm, arrived 5pm and spent two hours at SuziAuto, then arrived 7pm and spent another hour and a bit at Toll and arrived home with 5km to spare. Anyone who believes J1772 has all the answers clearly has more time on their hands than I have.
|
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 18, 2018 9:14:11 GMT 11
It appears that considerable expertise was needed to conceive that Setec three phase to single phase conversion / adaptor. I'll need to enlist a couple of electrically-qualified associates if I tackle that task.
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Jun 19, 2018 15:48:00 GMT 11
There is something else you should be aware of, before you start this journey. There are a variety of different configurations used by Tesla Destination chargers. Here is a quick sumary:
All Tesla chargers use a Type-2 (also called Mennekes) plug. There are 2 types of Destination chargers - Gen 1, and Gen 2.
Gen 1 chargers are the less common ones. They have no holster on the side. They all work in legacy mode, which means they uses the IEC 62196 standard to communicate with the car, and operate safely. All OEM cars in Australia use IEC 62196, to charge. IEC 62196 is used by Type-1 (also called J1772) and Type-2 (also called Mennekes) chargers-EVSE. If you have a Type-1 car, such as a Nissan Leaf, you can still use a Type-2 EVSE to charge by using a simple adaptor to convert from Type-2 to Type-1. This is simple because you only need to connect a single wire between each pin in the Type-2 to the same pin on the Type-1, and there is no electronics or switching involved. As Type-2 can be single or 3-phase, and Type-1 is only single phase, you only use 1 of the phases when making the adaptor. You can buy these adaptors already madeup.
Gen 1 Destination Chargers are all well behaved IEC 62196 compliant Type-2 EVSEs.
Gen 2 Destination chargers have a holster on the right side of the charger. They can be switched between IEC 69196 compliant (legacy) mode, and a non-compliant mode called Single Wire CAN (SWCAN) or Tesla only mode. SWCAN is only used by Tesla (model S, X, and soon 3). The switch is a dip inside the charger, so it cannot be changed easily.
Gen 2 chargers set to legacy mode are not 100% compliant as they require a 10 second pause when plugged in before charging commences, and this can cause problems on some cars. A way around this is to use a Type-2 to 3-pin, or Type-2 to 5-pin 3-phase. These adaptors will have some circuitry and a switch built into them. The switch can be used to provide the 10 second pause. This adaptor can then be used with the EVSE you keep in your boot, or a Setec.
Sorry to swamp you with so much detail. You must feel like Alice looking down the rabbit hole. It's not as bad as it looks, if you do one thing at a time.
Mark
|
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 20, 2018 21:38:05 GMT 11
After experiencing problems with Gelco Tesla to J1772 adaptor, I switched to the Tesla to 3 pin type which works fine except for the slow charge due to limitation of the EVSE. Current Gelco adaptors have two switches, one for single / three phase, and one for the 15 second delay. I've struck both single phase and three phase Tesla units, presumably what you describe as gen 1 are the single phase ones. Since Setec has agreed to supply a unit with both single and three phase connectors, I'll need to get a Tesla to three phase adaptor and a J1772 to 32 amp single phase adaptor (latter from the US as Gelco can't make that one). Another issue I've discovered is that I've been told there are two different versions of J1772 plug, one for the US and one for Europe. Dunno what is the difference or what version is used in Japan / Australia.
|
|
|
|
Post by stewartm on Jun 21, 2018 5:45:45 GMT 11
Can tell you that the J1772 in Europe is the same as the oz one. I have a leaf in each country.
But you will almost never find a tethered J1772 in france as all level two are mennekes.
Hence I have a mennekes to J1772 cable in my leaf here. I have a 7 kw clipper creek EVSE at home in France with J1772.
When I got the Zoe I had to get an adaptor cable with a J1772 socket to mennekes to charge the Zoe at 7kW.
Be wonderful to have one standard.
As it is here, each rapid 50kw has to have Chademo DC, CCS DC and mennekes AC, no wonder they are expensive
Have seen one huge 100kw CCS rapid, very new.
|
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 21, 2018 8:44:27 GMT 11
Thanks
Just got the following from EVSEADAPTORS in the US. What is your take on it ? Note that I've been advised elsewhere that they can supply a J1772 to Australian 3 pin 32 amp adaptor rather than the US split phase 14 - 50. I wonder if he is confusing type 2 J1772 with mennekes ?
'I did a little research and it seems Type 1 J1772 is currently the most prevalent in Australia, but lately a lot of Type 2 stations are getting installed too. So, you can certainly use our Type 1 J1772 to 14-50 adapter at most locations, but I would recommend also getting our Type 2 to Type 1 adapter so you can also charge at the Type 2 stations. '
|
|
|
|
Post by stewartm on Jun 23, 2018 18:31:51 GMT 11
Nema 14-50 is an American three phase plug, not australian. In my boot, I have the Setec unit, a 32amp three phase 5 pin lead, a 10amp three phase 4 pin lead(three phases and earth,neutral combined) A mennekes single phase to J1772, as J1772 is single phase only The standard Nissan Leaf charger, with extension lead with 10 amp plug My only addition would be the mennekes three phase adaptor to three phase socket that mark has. I bought my mennekes to J1772 lead off evcables.co.uk ~$200 to oz evcables.co.uk/index.php/type-1-to-type-2-ev-charging-cable-black-g2.html |
|
praxidice
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 43
LEAF OWNER?: No
|
Post by praxidice on Jun 29, 2018 10:06:20 GMT 11
Nema 14-50 is an American three phase plug, not australian. In my boot, I have the Setec unit, a 32amp three phase 5 pin lead, a 10amp three phase 4 pin lead(three phases and earth,neutral combined) A mennekes single phase to J1772, as J1772 is single phase only The standard Nissan Leaf charger, with extension lead with 10 amp plug My only addition would be the mennekes three phase adaptor to three phase socket that mark has. I bought my mennekes to J1772 lead off evcables.co.uk ~$200 to oz evcables.co.uk/index.php/type-1-to-type-2-ev-charging-cable-black-g2.html What three phase plug do you have on your Setec ?
Every three phase outlet I've seen in my travels is 32 amp, I don't recall seeing either a 10 amp or 20 amp three phase outlet anywhere and was wondering if its worth bothering with adaptors to suit.
Why don't you have a J1772 to single phase Setec adaptor ? Seems to me that would be beneficial with a Setec if it has both single and three phase input.
Thanks for the heads-up regarding evcables.co.uk. I'll check out what interesting / useful bits they have available.
I need to explore every possible option for use of the Setec as I'm pushing the boundaries to make a first generation EV practical for my purposes.
|
|
|
|
Post by markrmarkr on Sept 7, 2018 1:39:02 GMT 11
On Wednesday I accidentally plugged my Setec into a single phase Tesla Destination charger at Eden Gardens www.plugshare.com/location/80397. It worked. The reason is - they put the same phase on all three of the line pins on the Type-2 plug. My Setec would have pulled a maximum of 36 Amps, which is apparently not enough to trip the breaker on the 32 amp circuit. |
|
