aja
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 34
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by aja on Apr 25, 2017 22:03:22 GMT 11
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Post by gregleaf on Apr 26, 2017 13:01:54 GMT 11
I contacted LEAF box about pricing ect and they said they had sold several to Australian customers. Has anyone here had personal experience with this mod and can provide unbiased feedback. It's not cheap so if it is a scam I don't want to waste my money on it.
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Post by brunohill on Feb 8, 2018 1:04:39 GMT 11
I took the risk and installed one about 5 weeks ago. I figured that I already drove fairly economically, so I would see if it made any difference ( if not for me, but perhaps other family members , who drive about 2 litres per 100kms worse than me in the ICE vehicle). It is early stages, I have been the only driver, but so far i am getting 0.12 KW/Km where I was getting 0.14 KW/Km on the same 74 Km trip to work and back.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 13, 2019 20:47:41 GMT 11
I took the risk and installed one about 5 weeks ago. I figured that I already drove fairly economically, so I would see if it made any difference ( if not for me, but perhaps other family members , who drive about 2 litres per 100kms worse than me in the ICE vehicle). It is early stages, I have been the only driver, but so far i am getting 0.12 KW/Km where I was getting 0.14 KW/Km on the same 74 Km trip to work and back. How have you found the overall drive ability of the car? Has the improvement in consumption been maintained over this time? I’m interested to get one to extend the range of our Leaf.
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Post by caroline on Jan 13, 2019 22:34:28 GMT 11
I took the risk and installed one about 5 weeks ago. I figured that I already drove fairly economically, so I would see if it made any difference ( if not for me, but perhaps other family members , who drive about 2 litres per 100kms worse than me in the ICE vehicle). It is early stages, I have been the only driver, but so far i am getting 0.12 KW/Km where I was getting 0.14 KW/Km on the same 74 Km trip to work and back. How have you found the overall drive ability of the car? Has the improvement in consumption been maintained over this time? I’m interested to get one to extend the range of our Leaf. I came here to ask about the same thing! It just popped up in my fb feed (on sale at EVolution) and wondered if anyone had used one yet
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 14, 2019 0:10:54 GMT 11
Great minds think alike carolineI got an email from Evolution and got curious. The owner of the business just lives around the corner from me, I might get in touch with him to see what the deal is and if he's got any figures to back the claims up.
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Post by brunohill on Jan 14, 2019 8:18:13 GMT 11
I can not get my Leafbox to turn on and off as they say it should ( of course there can't be anything wrong with it, it must be the user). If I change the setting and unplug it and plug it back in, it will work, but once I turn it off, I can't turn it back on again. This makes it very hard, slow and painful to experiment with, so it is in the too hard basket at the moment because I haven't got the time. It does work, you can make the throttle do what you want but I need to customize the settings. I found the preprogrammed ones a bit weird ( none of the seam to suit my car). If you are prepared play around with it, the extra regen is great in the city and the glide is great for the country roads. Perhaps some others have been lucky and it has worked first go.
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lombard
EV Enthusiast
Loving my Leaf!
Posts: 29
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Post by lombard on May 29, 2019 8:31:47 GMT 11
Interesting device, I am thinking of getting one. The cheapest price I have found is from New Zealand $345 (ex GST - which we do not pay here) which is about $325 Australian dollars plus shipping. Has anyone fitted one? What's it like? juicepoint.com.au/products/leaf-box/
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Post by johnmath on Dec 15, 2020 9:43:27 GMT 11
I have just read the other thread (thanks Lombard) and decided to buy a Leaf Box, which I ordered and paid for today ~AU$310 from Poland. I have a 2016 LDM 30kWh Leaf and drive exclusively in Eco mode. I drive in an undulating district and although most driving is highway / dirt roads and bush tracks, regeneration amounted to about 25% of range on a couple of trips that I logged.
It seems to me that the mapping of the Leaf's accelerator is made to emulate the behaviour of the accelerator in vehicle with internal combustion engine, perhaps to make the Leaf 'feel' like a conventional car to drive. However a internal combustion engine has torque that varies with engine revs, as does the volumetric efficiency of the engine, which makes the relationship between engine torque and throttle position very peculiar.
To be honest I think Nissan's convoluted road-speed related accelerator mapping is unnecessary to the point of being silly. When I am trying to drive the Leaf most efficiently (i.e. by balancing the accelerator position to coast in preference to regeneration) the mapping of the throttle is forever trying to undo what my foot is doing!
My understanding of the Leaf Box is that it remaps the accelerator so that the control between position and torque is more linear, and not affected by road-speed. This should mean less computational gymnastics for my brain to operate my right foot for best economy.
The 'problem' with regenerative cycling is that it isn't all that efficient. On regeneration there are losses in the drivetrain ~10%, in the motor ~10%, in the charger ~15%, in the battery ~2%, and then when 'withdrawing' the saved energy battery loss ~1%, motor controller ~10%, motor ~10% and drivetrain ~10%. The cycle efficiency is going to be around 50% or less. The loss of energy in coasting is only that potentially from greater aerodynamic losses, which in most situations is going to be insignificant.
The secondary (and perhaps more important saving) is in battery life! If 10% less energy is being imported and exported from the battery, then that battery will last at for 10% more kilometres - or more, because less intensive cycling of energy through the battery may also keep battery temperatures lower for a potential secondary benefit in battery life.
I'll be interested to see if I gain much range, or if it simply makes the car easier to drive the way I already do. I expect a bit of both.
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Post by EVangelist on Dec 16, 2020 17:50:34 GMT 11
When I am trying to drive the Leaf most efficiently (i.e. by balancing the accelerator position to coast in preference to regeneration) the mapping of the throttle is forever trying to undo what my foot is doing! I’ve never had any trouble keeping the energy meter at zero (“coasting”) by adjusting the throttle, nor experienced what you state here. The 'problem' with regenerative cycling is that it isn't all that efficient. On regeneration there are losses in the drivetrain ~10%, in the motor ~10%, in the charger ~15%, in the battery ~2%, and then when 'withdrawing' the saved energy battery loss ~1%, motor controller ~10%, motor ~10% and drivetrain ~10%. The cycle efficiency is going to be around 50% or less. The loss of energy in coasting is only that potentially from greater aerodynamic losses, which in most situations is going to be insignificant. “Coasting” to avoid “regeneration losses” is completely overrated in my view, because in real (as opposed to contrived) driving situations, the percentage of time one can actually “coast” is close to irrelevant. As a result, avoided inefficiencies are even tinier. So given that in the real world one needs to use the brake pedal to avoid hitting cars or pedestrians, rather than “coast” to avoid same, regeneration is way better than mechanical braking. You may as well recover some energy in the process. The secondary (and perhaps more important saving) is in battery life! If 10% less energy is being imported and exported from the battery, then that battery will last at for 10% more kilometres - or more, because less intensive cycling of energy through the battery may also keep battery temperatures lower for a potential secondary benefit in battery life. I think it would be very difficult to drive in such a manner as to avoid regenerative charging to any meaningful extent... I'll be interested to see if I gain much range, or if it simply makes the car easier to drive the way I already do. Unless you do multiple standardised drives of the same route to test the effect with and without, and drive the route identically each time, it will likely be impossible to make any robust conclusion.
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Post by brunohill on Dec 16, 2020 21:37:59 GMT 11
I wouldn't waste your money on a LEAFBOX. Whoever has my old Leaf now has one in it that is turned off. The best thing you can do to improve range is pump your tyres up to the limit. Maybe spend the money on LED lights instead.
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Post by johnmath on Dec 17, 2020 8:39:05 GMT 11
To the doubters about the principle of Leaf Box, I have already proven the principle during dozens of 140km round trips to our local town.
I have logged the energy in and out of the battery using LeafSpy and GPS speed and altitude mapping, and typically in our circumstances regeneration amounts to 25% of range in "normal" driving. The differences in consumption between three modes, namely cruise control, regular energy efficient driving whilst ignoring regeneration (i.e. "normal" driving maintaining an consistent speed) and actively cruising with regeneration avoidance are quite obvious. It's just a PITA to do the later with the standard Nissan throttle mapping, and others who drive the vehicle may not have the skill or inclination anyway.
There are only a fixed number of electrons that can go into and out of the battery in its useful life, and even less as the battery temperature rises which is does proportionally to rate of charging and discharging. Getting the greatest range per charge is extending the useful life of the battery at the same time, which reduces the cost of ownership of the vehicle.
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Post by moyanous on Dec 17, 2020 12:53:44 GMT 11
I can also vouch for the Leafbox. Had one installed @ 81000k shortly before losing my third bar. I figured at the time there was little chance of having my battery replaced under warranty so it was best to make the most of the one I have.
I was already hypermiling so the Leafbox makes no improvement to my efficiency but it would help other family members who did not hypermile.
Before having it installed, when I go driving after others have driven the Leaf, the gom would increase for sometime whilst I'm driving, because my driving efficiency was higher.
This still happens after installing the Leafbox, but not as much as before. This is edvidence that the Leafbox was making my other family members drive more efficiently. They have no idea that I have modded the car so it wasn't due to a change of their driving habbits.
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Post by brunohill on Dec 17, 2020 13:47:28 GMT 11
I was already hypermiling so the Leafbox makes no improvement to my efficiency but it would help other family members who did not hypermile. Before having it installed, when I go driving after others have driven the Leaf, the gom would increase for sometime whilst I'm driving, because my driving efficiency was higher. Yes, I also found that other family members stopped driving it because of the weird throttle response and the lack of power. So yes mine did improve the efficiency.
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Post by moyanous on Dec 17, 2020 17:25:14 GMT 11
I had to select a different profile from the designated one for 2012 Leafs because it seems my Leaf's varisistor doesnt match the 'standard' range, but after doing that my Leaf drives smoother. Without the Leafbox, I find the car is a little over sensitive.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Dec 20, 2020 13:35:21 GMT 11
This sounds really interesting. Not sure we have our head around all the terms used in this thread. We have similar country to johnmath - undulating, lots of highway, no way to optimise routes to avoid vertical gain (although we obviously pick it up going down), drive in ECO and "B", coast as much as possible (is that a contradiction in terms if driving in "B" mode?) and use cruise control for long stretches with little traffic. We do on occasion go out of ECO when needing to accelerate at highway intersections. But if we are hypermiling where possible (and when we drive in the city it seems the Leaf runs on this air!), then our understanding is we extend the battery life with gadget rather than our range? Right?
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Post by johnmath on Dec 20, 2020 22:42:12 GMT 11
With any battery technology, there is in effect a limited number of electrons that can flow into and out of the battery over its useful life. It stands to reason that if you get more range, then you also get more battery life. That is because for a given distance driven, you have used less of that finite number of the battery's electron cycles.
The objective is to minimise electron cycles by avoiding regenerative braking slowing the car on declines, but allowing it to speed up, and use that extra kinetic energy to get over the next incline. This is more energy efficient than keeping the car at constant speed on declines using regenerative braking, and then using the motor to climb the next incline. This is going to be difficult to do in traffic without annoying other drivers, but here on the island we often don't see another car on a trip. We rarely drive at the speed limit (we'd just run out of island sooner) so simply try to get out of the way of the lead-foots and go back accelerator tickling once clear of other cars.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Dec 21, 2020 12:19:37 GMT 11
With any battery technology, there is in effect a limited number of electrons that can flow into and out of the battery over its useful life. It stands to reason that if you get more range, then you also get more battery life. That is because for a given distance driven, you have used less of that finite number of the battery's electron cycles. The objective is to minimise electron cycles by avoiding regenerative braking slowing the car on declines, but allowing it to speed up, and use that extra kinetic energy to get over the next incline. This is more energy efficient than keeping the car at constant speed on declines using regenerative braking, and then using the motor to climb the next incline. This is going to be difficult to do in traffic without annoying other drivers, but here on the island we often don't see another car on a trip. We rarely drive at the speed limit (we'd just run out of island sooner) so simply try to get out of the way of the lead-foots and go back accelerator tickling once clear of other cars. Unfortunately we have our major decline on a policed section of highway, which then runs to flat until we turn around to begin the ascent home so we can't not respect the speed limit .
On the back roads where we live we pretty much well do as you've described, except for right angle intersections since we aren't schumacher
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Post by johnmath on Dec 26, 2020 19:01:59 GMT 11
The Leaf Box arrived pretty quickly and I installed it on xmas day. Installation instructions din't come with the unit and had to be downloaded, but it's easy enough to fit taking about 5 minutes. I found the accelerator connector very tight and had to use a lever to prize it off. You need to open the control unit to set the program according to your own preferences.
The Leaf Box certainly does remap the accelerator and make the car easier to drive in coast/economy 'mode'. I don't have to watch the energy gauge all of the time and can instead watch out for sheep, cows, snakes, goannas, echidnas, birds and tourists on our country roads!
I've only driven 50 km so far, which is a trip to the local village and back plus a run to the beach. This is mostly what our everyday driving is. The trip to the village has a steep incline at each end, plateauing at about 400 metres of elevation with some undulation along the way. Previously I spent a lot of time looking at the energy gauge and adjusting my right foot going down slight slopes and gullies. Now I barely have to think about it.
The last 5,000 km has averaged at 7.6 km/kWh, with the Leaf Box it's 7.9 km/kWh so far, an improvement of 4%, close to the claimed 5% improvement for highway driving. About ½ of the driving is done by my partner who probably doesn't spend any effort on minimising regenerative braking, so it will be interesting to see if the gain increases, but so far Leaf Box seems to work as advertised.
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Post by johnmath on Dec 27, 2020 1:06:30 GMT 11
Just did another run of 40km to the village and back. This time my partner drove and now the accumulative efficiency is indicated at 8.3 km/kWh, an improvement of range of 15% over the baseline. I hope this is not just an aberration.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Dec 29, 2020 9:36:08 GMT 11
johnmath that's impressive, we are averaging about 6.6km/kWh for most of our trips (most of the time we are driving at 80km/h+ average since we have to travel on a single lane highway to go from our place (offroad from the highway) to anywhere else that has city traffic speed limits). Will have a look at this - our driving habits may be insufficiently conservative to obtain the kinds of gains you are seeing.
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Post by johnmath on Dec 30, 2020 19:59:17 GMT 11
I need to correct my previous post, 8.3 km/kWh is 9% improvement over baseline, not 15%. After a Monday 140km trip to town and back the figure has dropped back to 7.9 ... thanks to a slow puncture.
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Post by johnmath on Jan 6, 2021 9:11:09 GMT 11
I wondered how the cruise control would be affected by Leaf Box. It isn't and works like it always did with no changes.
However it is much easier to prevent regenerative braking when coasting downhill with cruise control on and the Leaf Box installed. You simply have a touch the accelerator to hypermile. I find it possible to leave my foot resting on the accelerator pedal with the cruise control engaged so that I can still get the range extending advantage of the Leaf Box, whilst using the cruise control.
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Post by johnmath on Feb 16, 2021 13:32:25 GMT 11
The Leaf Box has been installed for 3,000 kms now and the km/kWh figure reported on the dash has improved from 7.2 to 8.0, an improvement of about 10%. It is not easy to take advantage of the remapping of the accelerator in traffic but most of the time our island roads have few cars.
Without the leaf Box or hypermiling, a trip to the local town and back results in 25% regeneration. Given the the round cycle efficiency of regeneration is only about 50%, there are significant gains from allowing the car to speed up when going down hill, rather than regeneration, so the momentum is used to get up the next hill, instead of extra battery. I should log another trip to see how much regeneration occurs with the Leaf box fitted, but I suspect quite a bit less.
Because I have been looking at consumption, I have noticed is how it varies noticeably between one, two or three passengers over the same trip (home to town and back).
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