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Post by empowerrepower on Feb 20, 2017 22:29:05 GMT 11
Hi,
Has anyone bought a dongle for their Leaf recently that they can recommend? I'm wary of buying one of the ones that doesn't work. I'm also wondering whether a dongle that suits a Leaf would be usable with a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, if I end up buying one?
My Leaf is off in a couple of weeks to Bris for its service, and as I'm two bars down after two years of ownership, I'd really like some info on battery health.
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Post by caskings on Feb 21, 2017 12:39:23 GMT 11
Just checked my ebay history and this is the unit I bought.
KW903 ELM327 Bluetooth Car OBD2 OBDII Auto Fault Diagnostic Scanner
I'm brisbane based, so if you just want to do a single pull of the battery status let me know when you are down here next and you can use mine.
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Post by empowerrepower on Feb 22, 2017 15:38:29 GMT 11
Thank you, I've just ordered it.
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Post by empowerrepower on Mar 4, 2017 17:06:51 GMT 11
OK, I've got the dongle, and have downloaded Leaf Spy Lite, but now need to interpret what the data means. I've attached some screen shots. I've had the car for two years as of next Wednesday, and it recently lost its second bar. I've never managed to drive much beyond 100km, so I've been concerned about the battery health all along. If anyone can assist with some interpretation of the data, I'd appreciate it. Also, does Leaf Spy Lite give enough data on battery health, or should I be using Leaf Spy or Leaf Spy Pro?  |
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Post by empowerrepower on Mar 4, 2017 17:11:56 GMT 11
And another image... OK, I'm getting an error message, "This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit"  The image is of a voltage histogram. |
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Post by jeffthewalker on Mar 4, 2017 17:31:36 GMT 11
And another image... OK, I'm getting an error message, "This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit"??? The image is of a voltage histogram. I keep an eye on the "max difference" in cell voltages. On your image it is 29mV which I think is about right. I have seen 16mV through to 33mV. This is an indication of the battery cell balance(s). I feel that the Pro version is well worth it. Having said that, mine worked for 18 months but only the lite version has worked for the last 5 months or so. I have not been able to get the pro version going. I have re-booted everything multiple times, removed and re-downloaded the pro version, unplugged and re-plugged the OBDII many times and even contacted the helpful LEAF Spy people. I will have to have another go soon. |
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Post by hieronymous on Mar 4, 2017 18:17:38 GMT 11
OK, I've got the dongle, and have downloaded Leaf Spy Lite, but now need to interpret what the data means. I've attached some screen shots. I've had the car for two years as of next Wednesday, and it recently lost its second bar. I've never managed to drive much beyond 100km, so I've been concerned about the battery health all along. If anyone can assist with some interpretation of the data, I'd appreciate it. Also, does Leaf Spy Lite give enough data on battery health, or should I be using Leaf Spy or Leaf Spy Pro? Hi empowerrepower Your screen shot shows a fairly typical battery - not super well balanced (<14 or so), no major weak cell either. You will get a better idea of any cell weakness if you run your battery down to VLBW and take another screen shot. Your SOH is at 77%, hence your 2nd bar loss - every 7% or so after the first one. Sorry about that! For battery health only, plus SoC, Leaf Spy Lite is enough. If you want battery temperature, and a kWh reading which allows you to calculate range remaining, you need Leaf Spy. If you want to fiddle with door lock settings and a few things that the dealer normally has to do, get the Pro version - I did, but I wouldn't greatly recommend the extra expense. Newer Leafs have SoC on the dash - many owners just use that for keeping an idea of their remaining range. So what you have now may be enough... |
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Post by empowerrepower on Mar 5, 2017 0:02:09 GMT 11
Hi empowerrepower Your screen shot shows a fairly typical battery - not super well balanced (<14 or so), no major weak cell either. You will get a better idea of any cell weakness if you run your battery down to VLBW and take another screen shot. Your SOH is at 77%, hence your 2nd bar loss - every 7% or so after the first one. Sorry about that! For battery health only, plus SoC, Leaf Spy Lite is enough. If you want battery temperature, and a kWh reading which allows you to calculate range remaining, you need Leaf Spy. If you want to fiddle with door lock settings and a few things that the dealer normally has to do, get the Pro version - I did, but I wouldn't greatly recommend the extra expense. Newer Leafs have SoC on the dash - many owners just use that for keeping an idea of their remaining range. So what you have now may be enough... Thanks, very interesting. The being "not super well balanced" - is there anything that I can do about that? How does a lack of balance affect the battery? (Iit is going in for the strut repair in a week, and will be with Nissan for a week) Where did the <14 figure appear? I will try doing another reading when the battery is very low as you suggest. |
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Post by hieronymous on Mar 5, 2017 9:20:17 GMT 11
Hi empowerrepower Your screen shot shows a fairly typical battery - not super well balanced (<14 or so), no major weak cell either. You will get a better idea of any cell weakness if you run your battery down to VLBW and take another screen shot. Your SOH is at 77%, hence your 2nd bar loss - every 7% or so after the first one. Sorry about that! For battery health only, plus SoC, Leaf Spy Lite is enough. If you want battery temperature, and a kWh reading which allows you to calculate range remaining, you need Leaf Spy. If you want to fiddle with door lock settings and a few things that the dealer normally has to do, get the Pro version - I did, but I wouldn't greatly recommend the extra expense. Newer Leafs have SoC on the dash - many owners just use that for keeping an idea of their remaining range. So what you have now may be enough... Thanks, very interesting. The being "not super well balanced" - is there anything that I can do about that? How does a lack of balance affect the battery? (Iit is going in for the strut repair in a week, and will be with Nissan for a week) Where did the <14 figure appear? I will try doing another reading when the battery is very low as you suggest. Your battery is what it is in terms of balance (cell voltage relative to neighbouring cells), and reflects manufacturing tolerances. Lots of posts in different leaf forums suggest fully charging, then running right down, then fully charging again, but i haven't seen anything to suggest that there is any permanent improvement from this. Your Leaf BMS (battery management system) does a satisfactory job on its own in balancing the pack without owner input. If you regularly and fully charge then your Leaf battery is as balanced as it will ever be. The 14mV value comes from seeing scores of screenshots such as yours, posted online, and is an expression of average cell voltage variation, lower being better. When I first got my Leaf and 80% charged it my average cell voltage was around 24; now it is seldom under 35, but that is because I now don't charge past 40%. The main point is that balance determines maximum range, because the weakest cell stops the whole pack when it reduces (by normal discharging) to the allowable minimum, BUT if you don't need maximum range then balance is a non-issue. I said your 29mV average was fairly typical - I have seen screenshots of weak cell battery packs with mV values over 200. Such batteries can't even get down to LBW before going turtle. Yours is fine. When your battery gets down to / below VLBW, you will see the weakest cell number(s) listed in red at the bottom of the Leaf Spy display. This is academic, as Nissan doesn't consider battery values such as yours to be outside a normal range. It is easy to obsess over a declining battery, but in the end we just make decisions and move on. Enjoy your Leaf daily on shorter runs, and one day Aussie politicians will come to their senses about building an EV-friendly environment. By then EVs will have triple the range, and at least cost no more, hopefully less. Otherwise, you could always migrate over here, and enjoy our EV market! |
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Post by empowerrepower on Mar 14, 2017 22:39:37 GMT 11
  OK, the Leaf is now in for its service etc for a week. I did a pic of the battery at low charge. Will try attaching. Any thoughts? |
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Post by rusdy on Mar 15, 2017 14:05:51 GMT 11
Hi empower, looks average to me. Mine does the same with you. If you go even lower, you'll notice at certain SoC the discrepancy jumps 'exponentially'. For mine, starting at 12%, the weak cell goes down to 25mV lower than the other, and then at 11% goes even further to beyond 35mV. At this stage, the BMS starting to balance like crazy, so notification (at the LeafSpy) blaring of weak cells here and there, and constantly changing (due to balancing at work). What really ticks me off after service, my SoC increases a bit (then free-fall again), but the Hx drops free-fall (not sure what this is). See the changes after service for mine (attached). Maybe after service, mine is the correct figure. Pyschologically damaging though  . Attachments:
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Post by hieronymous on Mar 16, 2017 12:34:11 GMT 11
OK, the Leaf is now in for its service etc for a week. I did a pic of the battery at low charge. Will try attaching. Any thoughts? Have had another hard look at your screenshots, and see that your cell voltage difference was 19mV not 29mV in your first post, and is at 16mV in the latest pics - the cell readings are nicely grouped together, and show above average balancing, a pretty good battery. Otherwise, battery stats seem typical for a 2011-2012 Leaf that gets a bit of hot weather in an otherwise moderate climate. Newer Leafs (2013+) over here seem to have battery chemistry that lasts a bit better, with slightly better range, and the recent arrivals with 30KWh batteries are reported to be giving about 160-170 highway kms. However, the competition is hotting up, with the Hyundai Ionic available this month from $60K, 28KWh battery giving 230+km in testing here. They should be cheaper over your way... |
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Post by chuq on Apr 8, 2020 16:52:23 GMT 11
Sorry to bump this old thread, but figured it was the best place for it! Has anyone bought a dongle from OBD2Australia - specifically this one? obd2australia.com.au/product/obd-aus-bluetooth-scan-tool-obd2-scan-tool/I bought a Konweii KW903 one from ebay some time ago, it didn't work with my phone however (iPhone). I find this out after I paid $30 for the LeafSpyPro app of course. It went on the "investigate some other time" pile but this web store looks a bit more reliable and willing to stand behind their products. |
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Post by tomkauf on Apr 8, 2020 19:03:40 GMT 11
Sorry to bump this old thread, but figured it was the best place for it! Has anyone bought a dongle from OBD2Australia - specifically this one? obd2australia.com.au/product/obd-aus-bluetooth-scan-tool-obd2-scan-tool/I bought a Konweii KW903 one from ebay some time ago, it didn't work with my phone however (iPhone). I find this out after I paid $30 for the LeafSpyPro app of course. It went on the "investigate some other time" pile but this web store looks a bit more reliable and willing to stand behind their products. I haven't bought from that website, but I can confirm these work: www.ebay.com.au/itm/LELink-2-Configurable-Auto-On-Off-Bluetooth-Low-Energy-BLE-OBD-II-OBD2-Car-Diagn/123641865958That's what I bought last year, and it has worked well for LeafSpy Pro. They're not cheap, but it is what LeafSpy recommend. Most ODB Readers will show you Check-Engine-Codes etc without any problems, via their generic app. But the issue is that not all Readers work with LeafSpy. In LeafSpy, under About & Help, Application Help, scroll down to OBD Hardware. They mention that the previously recommend cheap Chinese ELM327 readers are very hit-and-miss, and have been worse lately due to cost-cutting. And the same with the KW-902. So they're left with recommending any based on Bluetooth 4.x LE. From memory, there were some others available for iPhone, but very few said compatible with Android (in my case). If OBD2Australia will refund you the purchase price if it doesn't work with LeafSpy, I'd say it's worth a try. You'll save a good chunk of money. But if they only stand behind their Reader working with their App, you might be more than half-way to a known working one. |
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Post by moyanous on Apr 9, 2020 11:39:11 GMT 11
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Post by moyanous on Apr 9, 2020 11:52:49 GMT 11
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Post by chuq on May 11, 2020 12:39:10 GMT 11
I can confirm this one also didn't work with my iPhone  However I followed up with one from Amazon - this one: amzn.to/2YSo1PMI can confirm this one works with my iPhone! At last!Just need to sell the other two adaptors I have to make up for it. I'm guessing they will *probably* work fine with Android. If anyone in Hobart is interested you can send me a message. (Limiting to Hobart so that you can test before you buy!) |
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 10, 2020 23:03:40 GMT 11
Ok update on the dongle situation. downleaded Leafspy (not Pro) to the android phone. Finally picked up the OBD2 Australia dongle , paired with with the android phone. OBD2 Australia's app and dongle worked fine in the Nissan Navara workhorse.
Unfortunately, the same didn't happen with the Nissan Leaf. Dongle plugged in, android phone paired with dongle, LeafSpy app tried to connect to dongle, only response was:
[BtS] read failed, socket might closed or timeout, read ret: -1
Anyone know what that means? Other than probably means this dongle doesn't work and have to find another that does?
Cheers Jag
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Post by tomkauf on Oct 10, 2020 23:50:03 GMT 11
There's something about the commands that the recommended ELM327 devices support, that makes them able to read Leaf information.
For whatever reason, a normal OBD2 Diagnostic Dongle isn't enough unfortunately.
Chuq originally asked if the one from obd2australia worked, and I guess you can now confirm it doesn't.
In the LeafSpy app under About & Help, it lists the 2 recommended Dongles. The LELink, and PLX Kiwi 3. I bought the LELink (eBay link above), which I thought was expensive at just over $100. But the PLX Kiwi 3 seems to retail for $179...crazy.
It mentions that even Chinese ELM327 Devices ($10-$15) that had been ok, recently started to be made so cheaply that they didn't support the required functionality anymore. So they're very hit-and-miss.
So for a more reasonable price (under $35 with free postage), the Amazon link that moyanous posted looks good. And he confirmed works.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 11, 2020 9:23:11 GMT 11
here's what we learned today after writing to the LeafSpy author Jim:
He replied that the error is an android device error and there must have been another app/device pairing with the phone (android apparently only allows one pairing at a time). There wasn't, and we had done the good old turn off turn on etc. We've written back that after that error showed up, we downloaded the OBD2 App, and no issue whatsoever, ie android paired with dongle, dongle talked to Nissan Navara, dongle talked to phone etc, so if he has any other ideas, we're keen to try out.
Have ordered the LELink as per your suggestion. Thanks a lot for your help!
Edit: typo!
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Post by coulomb on Oct 11, 2020 9:51:33 GMT 11
Are you doing everything you need to to make the OBD2 app disconnect from the dongle? It might be keeping it connected even when not running, so that Android won't let anything else connect to it, including LeafSpy.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 11, 2020 10:12:22 GMT 11
Hi coulomb, yes, the OBD2 App was only downloaded AFTER the error showed up in the first place. To be clear, this was the sequence: 1) plug in dongle in Leaf 2) pair dongle with Android phone 3) activate LeafSpy and choose BT devices 4) choose BT paired device OBD2 dongle 5) LeafSpy shows yellow looking for device 6) error message appears. We turned off phone, pulled out dongle, repeated the process, same result. After that, we downloaded the OBD2 App to test if the dongle was in fact working. All components of that chain worked fine in the Nissan Navara. But change to the Leaf, with LeafSpy, no go. |
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Post by coulomb on Oct 11, 2020 10:28:21 GMT 11
But change to the Leaf, with LeafSpy, no go. Can you run the OBD2 application in the Leaf? You likely have to be in at least ON mode or READY mode to get power to the dongle in the Leaf. It may be different in the Navara. |
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Post by tomkauf on Oct 11, 2020 11:52:53 GMT 11
Good to hear you got a reply from Jim the LeafSpy author.
I don't know much else about that error unfortunately.
But I have tried a normal OBD Reader on the Leaf. Just one that we use for reading basic Check Engine Lights on our Subaru. And it did show some information, just not any of the useful Driving Battery info.
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 11, 2020 12:31:45 GMT 11
Hi coulombyep already tried running Car Scanner in the Leaf. It cycled through 17 protocols attempting to connect. Car Scanner reports that the ELM27 talks to the phone, but the ECM can't connect to the car ie the dongle and the Leaf can't communicate. We have tried LeafSpy in different ports etc, have tried to activate ELM tracing in LeafSpy but can't find anything in LeafSpy Settings that match the LeafSpy Help instructions, in any case Car Scanner connects to the dongle from the android, and reports the dongle isn't communicating with the Leaf. So it's either a Leaf problem or a dongle problem. We turned off a lot of the head cluster notifications (Japanese) so is it possible that scrolling through the Japanese head menu, and turning most settings to off, we have inadvertently turned a connection to the dongle port to "off". Does anyone know enough about the head cluster to indicate if there is such a setting in any of the menus that would stop the Leaf talking to the dongle? Cheers Jag |
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 11, 2020 12:35:09 GMT 11
Hi tomkaufyep as above, Car Scanner can connect to the OBD2 Australia when its plugged into the Leaf, but the dongle can't communicate with the Leaf, according to the Car Scanner app from OBD2 Australia. Jim has been in contact again trying to help, but we don't think it's a LeafSpy issue. We've sent him the same info as reported here in the forum, wait to see if he has anything to add. Suspect we have inadvertently turned a communication setting to off in the settings of the head cluster which is preventing communication between dongle and Leaf, unless it really is the dongle. Anyone know about head settings and dongle comms? cheers jag |
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Post by coulomb on Oct 11, 2020 14:45:05 GMT 11
Suspect we have inadvertently turned a communication setting to off in the settings of the head cluster which is preventing communication between dongle and Leaf... I very much doubt it. The OBD2 connector usually connects directly to the CAN bus, as it does in this 2013 schematic:  |
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Oct 11, 2020 16:17:52 GMT 11
Hi coulombnice pic! then if we haven't dashed ourselves on the jap dash, it's the dongle (or our particular vehicle, somehow). We've ordered the dongle recced by tomkauf, Jim also suggested these (as well as the LELink) might work: Carista Nexas Bluetooth (he didn't provide more info). cheers and hope this helps more newcomers. |
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jaginoz
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 47
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jaginoz on Nov 11, 2020 0:10:09 GMT 11
Update on the dongle tomkauf, coulomb: OBD 2 as purchased from OBD2 Australia does not work, despite trying all suggested options. The LELink does work, paired straightaway. The instructions say to download another app, but not necessary with LeafSpy (Pro is not required for LELink to work unless people want the additional functionality of LeafSpy Pro). Sequence: 1. Turn on vehicle 2. Plug in dongle 3. Pair dongle with phone 4. Open Leafspy and select Bluetooth 4.X LE dongle (not BT paired devices). 5. Port selection in LeafSpy (1, 16, secure) didn't seem to make a difference. So it worked. Only downside was discovering 4% decline of battery SOH since purchase |
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Post by coulomb on Nov 11, 2020 11:00:14 GMT 11
3. Pair dongle with phone 4. Open Leafspy and select Bluetooth 4.X LE dongle ( not BT paired devices). Um, my understanding is that LE dongles don't pair. You point out in step 4 that it's not a paired device. So, I would think that you should skip step 3. I actually wasted a fair bit of time trying to get my phone to pair with my LE, and could not. So I hope to spare other readers that hassle. |
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