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Post by pharmadave on Jan 4, 2017 14:03:19 GMT 11
Hi everyone,
I'm starting to look at getting solar installed at my home. No storage batteries at the moment due to cost but I do want a decent sized battery compatible system to be installed.
Anyone have recommended installers, recommended brands of parts e.g. panels/inverters etc? Anyone have experience with their solar system that they'd want to share? I'm particularly interested in how a solar system performs at about the 5 year mark as that's when some parts' warranties start to run out and faults may appear.
Cheers,
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 4, 2017 15:55:56 GMT 11
My solar panels are ReneSola 250, a good brand and still working perfectly after 4 years. I have 12 which gives me 3Kw. If you want to charge your LEAF you need that much to be any use at all. My inverter is a Sungrow SH5K, which was a lot cheaper than the SMA Sunny Insland Inverter recommended by Damian of Blue Mountains Solar, who has a LEAF and has posted once to this forum. The SMA has a more detailed communication with your computer or smart phone. The Sungrow only communicates what the solar panels are actually producing, and not what happens to it. I didn't think the extra cost was worth it for me. When I want more details I go and look on the panel on the inverter where all the details are recorded. My Installers were Solar Australia, but there closest office to you is Albury. Allgrid Energy, an Aboriginal Company based in Queensland, seemed quite good, but then I found Solar Australia, who are based in Newcastle, just down the road from me, so I chose the local mob.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 4, 2017 16:24:47 GMT 11
Thanks for your information Phoebe. I am planning to have a 5KW system installed. As I am new to the solar sector, I am looking at quotes for medium grade panels to high end panels. So far, one company has quoted just over $9k for an array of Sunpower 327Watt panels (with Fronius inverter) whilst another company has quoted just over $6k for an array of Trina 270watt panels (with SolaX Hybrid inverter).
I understand that Sunpower are in a different league in terms of the technology that is built into their panels. I just don't know if the extra $3k is worth it. We are planning to live our house for a while yet, given Melbourne property prices, we won't be able to change to another property any time soon.
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aja
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 34
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by aja on Jan 4, 2017 21:26:04 GMT 11
We have used solar power for at least 10 years. 5 years in our previous house in Melbourne and another 5 in Ballarat. We have used Envirogroup (http://envirogroup.com.au) to source and install the systems and are happy with the results and their service.
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Post by jacky on Jan 5, 2017 15:44:30 GMT 11
Both Sunpower and Trina are good panels. Sunpower should have higher efficiency (smaller panel area to generate the same electricity). As long as you can put all panels required on your roof, efficiency doesn't make any difference. Solar panels generating 5kW with smaller area still only generate 5kW. The wattage on the model just indicates how much power a panel can generate under the test conditions. If the panel size is bigger, it generates more. If the panel efficiency is better, it also generates more with the same size. Just compare the wattage of the panel may not make sense. I would save 3k and go for Trina. Will there any shades on the solar panels? The installer should be able to answer it. If a panel is shaded, the power generated by that panel may be reduced significantly even only a very small part is shaded. If there are shades on the panels, you can ask for a quote with micro-inverters. When my system was installed, micro-inverters were still too expensive but it should be cheaper now. Since you are interested in batteries, you should also ask the installer if your inverter is compatible with batteries.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 5, 2017 17:19:53 GMT 11
If it's like here, and you intend to use your power/dollars to charge your LEAF, then be sure to avoid the grid feed rip off. You still buy power at the rate dictated, offset by what you have fed in. Sadly the fed to the grid, & power billed as used from the grid differ substantially. I'm set to get private power storage, and garage feed for my LEAF only, which the "allowances" don't appear to cover.
My take is I'm not prepared to be a private power station for the power grid at my expense, and then pay full price per KW I use as it's fed through a different meter. Ask for 300w panels if you do go for it, you can increase your roof power density by 25%, or generate more power on your roof. Check the efficiency is close to 19% or better for good quality panels. Seemingly the panels pedaled here are "old tech" items, and probably bought cheaper, to get more profit for the installer. Another thing is if your usual power bill is close to $300, then you get a thank you for being eco responsible, and get told you don't qualify for the subsidy offered. I honestly thought I'd be subject to some form of congratulations for being eco friendly when I threw out the inefficient equipment and lighting. Aparrently not to present!.
When storage tech is allowed in, I'd store my own power. There is a mob called WattBank that offer a reasonable return for ones power fed to the grid, have s quick look over their modus operandii on the net.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 5, 2017 17:27:01 GMT 11
Hi everyone, I'm starting to look at getting solar installed at my home. No storage batteries at the moment due to cost but I do want a decent sized battery compatible system to be installed. Anyone have recommended installers, recommended brands of parts e.g. panels/inverters etc? Anyone have experience with their solar system that they'd want to share? I'm particularly interested in how a solar system performs at about the 5 year mark as that's when some parts' warranties start to run out and faults may appear. Cheers, If you do get a upgradeable inverter to use storage, be certain to get it in writing, and that the necessary is available in Au to be fitted at a later date. One mob tried to flog me a system supposedly upgradeable. It wasn't when I read the manufacturers spec on the item here.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 5, 2017 17:32:12 GMT 11
Hi everyone, I'm starting to look at getting solar installed at my home. No storage batteries at the moment due to cost but I do want a decent sized battery compatible system to be installed. Anyone have recommended installers, recommended brands of parts e.g. panels/inverters etc? Anyone have experience with their solar system that they'd want to share? I'm particularly interested in how a solar system performs at about the 5 year mark as that's when some parts' warranties start to run out and faults may appear. Cheers, If you do get a upgradeable inverter to use storage, be certain to get it in writing, and that the necessary is available in Au to be fitted at a later date. One mob tried to flog me a system supposedly upgradeable. It wasn't when I read the manufacturers spec on the item here. Efficiency of the panel is how well it converts solar energy to useable power. Read the specs not in Au, as the system is questionable at times. I've seen some shocking data on some electrical goods. In all honesty, I'd go it privately, you can have what is best, rather than 'approved'.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 5, 2017 18:02:33 GMT 11
On the topic of selling power back to the grid, I was introduced to the existence of a system called 'Reposit' which actively monitors the power demands by all the generators and if it identifies a peak demand when the power companies are in need of extra power quickly, it will sell the electricity you have stored in your batteries to the grid at these peak prices and then buy it back at off peak rates or allow your solar panels to replenish the battery in due time. It does this with the aid of being connected to the internet and the owner can monitor it on their smart phone.
It's quite an innovative system and effectively sells power during highs and buys it back during the lows and makes sense as long as you've got a storage battery in place.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 6, 2017 7:45:47 GMT 11
Interesting idea. Does this system prioritise your requirements over the grids requirements to reduce your grid power requirements?.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 6, 2017 9:27:41 GMT 11
Interesting idea. Does this system prioritise your requirements over the grids requirements to reduce your grid power requirements?. From the way it was explained to me (I have not had time to sit down and study it in detail, it won't be for me any time soon as i don't have a battery) it focuses on maximising money return for the owner, almost like a stock exchange scenario resulting in a shorter pay-back period for the initial install cost. To meet spikes in peak demand, some power companies are willing to may multiples of normal electricity rates at that instant for extra KWs so the Reposit device detects that requirement and sells your power to the grid at the higher price and then buys it back later once the peak is over so overall there is a net profit for the owner of the system. I'd assume you would have to be on a time-of-use plan so that the system can elect to charge up your storage battery during off peak hours if needed.
Really interesting concept.
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 6, 2017 11:59:41 GMT 11
For someone who already has solar and battery back up, the Reposit device would have to cost virtually nothing for it to be worth the bother of getting the device and changing electricity provider.
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Post by iamlsd on Jan 6, 2017 13:55:48 GMT 11
I'm looking into this now as I'm already with Diamond Energy who allow this and a local company is quoting a tesla powerwall 2 (starting) from $11,850 or $35 per week. The starting from could be the catch but going for the weekly payment would be perfect for me. This was how I paid for our leaf as well.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 6, 2017 17:08:13 GMT 11
Ok. Questions to begin with. 1. Membership/charges to be part of, and time/contract costs?. 2. An idea of the buy from individual pricing, or if you are with them, their charges per unit of power if your demand exceeds reserve or ability?. 3. What happens in the event one cannot, or doesn't have spare/saved power?. 4. Undoubtedly there would have to be some form of certified or dependable metering. Costs?. 5. A guess here, but there would have to be "site" surveying. Costs for connection, surveying & possible disconnect if required. 6. Is there a minimum, or maximum unit provision?.
Sounds odd, but I'm not about to subsidise any power company with my hard earned. And last, but not least. If one buys in, where is the power sourced from?.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 6, 2017 17:14:16 GMT 11
I'm looking into this now as I'm already with Diamond Energy who allow this and a local company is quoting a tesla powerwall 2 (starting) from $11,850 or $35 per week. The starting from could be the catch but going for the weekly payment would be perfect for me. This was how I paid for our leaf as well. I had a similar quote with the LG BBU/storage for 5.5kw on roof, smallest LG. I figured that if I paid up front, the costs could be less, as there's no form of credit involved. I managed to shave around $800 off if I had the new, and may appear smart meter already fitted, which is a no cost item from the grid. Supposedly to appear in the first half of 2017. ..... another reason to sit back and wait for new tech, & price reduction. I'll plat my own EVSE item in myself.
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Post by empowerrepower on Jan 10, 2017 0:36:38 GMT 11
I'm looking into this now as I'm already with Diamond Energy who allow this and a local company is quoting a tesla powerwall 2 (starting) from $11,850 or $35 per week. The starting from could be the catch but going for the weekly payment would be perfect for me. This was how I paid for our leaf as well. Hi, it may be good to check out the financial sense of batteries carefully, as from my reading I don't believe that batteries make financial sense for very many households at their current price, and a battery has a much more limited life than solar panels. There is an interesting article here: linkAlthough the feedback tariff for solar fed back to the grid isn't exactly spectacular for new systems, you are still being paid for it, and your electricity is helping displace dirty sources of electricity, so that is something to feel good about. Looking at ways to maximise self-consumption will give you the best return for your solar, as every kwH you use yourself will be like paying yourself 28c or similar, depending on where you live.
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Post by empowerrepower on Jan 10, 2017 0:58:11 GMT 11
Thanks for your information Phoebe. I am planning to have a 5KW system installed. As I am new to the solar sector, I am looking at quotes for medium grade panels to high end panels. So far, one company has quoted just over $9k for an array of Sunpower 327Watt panels (with Fronius inverter) whilst another company has quoted just over $6k for an array of Trina 270watt panels (with SolaX Hybrid inverter). I understand that Sunpower are in a different league in terms of the technology that is built into their panels. I just don't know if the extra $3k is worth it. We are planning to live our house for a while yet, given Melbourne property prices, we won't be able to change to another property any time soon. Hi Pharmadave, If I was getting solar again (got it nearly five years ago, 2.28kW and later added 0.7 kW) I'd look into getting a larger inverter than the system needs, to allow me to add more panels later. Adding an inverter of larger capacity doesn't add very much to the cost. So for example, for your 5 kW of solar panels, you could add a 6 or 7 kW inverter. One thing to check here is what local regulations exist for the size of the system you can run while still feeding back into the grid your excess electricity, in which case this idea might not work. Inverters seem to be the part of the system most likely to break down, so that may account for why they usually only have a 5 year warranty, whereas panels may be under warranty for 25 years. I've found the website solarquotes very useful for research, and they give guidance as to what the usual range of prices are for solar in different capital cities, and have a solar payback calculator. They also recommend placing your inverter either in a shaded spot or inside your garage to help it last longer. Mine is in the garage opposite the meter box on the outside wall.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 10, 2017 1:38:58 GMT 11
empowerrepowerThanks for the advice, so far I have looked only at a 5KW system with a 5KW inverter. I have been told that my grid provider currently allows up to 10KW solar to be connected until March 2017, after that time the limit for any new grid-connected solar installs will be under review and most likely will be reduced to 5KW. Having a higher capacity inverter is certainly of interest for me as in the future when I do get a storage battery, I can always generate more by putting up some extra panels without spending extra money upgrading the inverter also.
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Post by jake on Jan 10, 2017 17:34:05 GMT 11
I'm looking into this now as I'm already with Diamond Energy who allow this and a local company is quoting a tesla powerwall 2 (starting) from $11,850 or $35 per week. The starting from could be the catch but going for the weekly payment would be perfect for me. This was how I paid for our leaf as well. Hi, it may be good to check out the financial sense of batteries carefully, as from my reading I don't believe that batteries make financial sense for very many households at their current price, and a battery has a much more limited life than solar panels. There is an interesting article here: linkAlthough the feedback tariff for solar fed back to the grid isn't exactly spectacular for new systems, you are still being paid for it, and your electricity is helping displace dirty sources of electricity, so that is something to feel good about. Looking at ways to maximise self-consumption will give you the best return for your solar, as every kwH you use yourself will be like paying yourself 28c or similar, depending on where you live. Even with a power wall 2, it still probably is on par with staying on the grid so although it doesn't quite make economic sense. I have an irrational hatred of power companies, so I'm going off grid.
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Post by EVangelist on Jan 10, 2017 19:28:21 GMT 11
Even with a power wall 2, it still probably is on par with staying on the grid so although it doesn't quite make economic sense. I have an irrational hatred of power companies, so I'm going off grid. I'm a bit like that. I'd love to go off-grid but it's not (currently) feasible. My limiting factor is the amount of roof space I have, I either need to halve my daily power consumption, or wait until solar panels reach 40% rather than 20% efficiency. At current trend rates of improvement the latter will take 20 years. I received a logging power meter for Christmas, so I am currently auditing where my power consumption is going, to determine if there are things I can do (such as replacing old appliances) to reduce household demand. I'm also probably going to replace much of the fixed glazing with thick, tinted, low-E glass (our house was not designed for the Australian climate!). Double glaze retrofit is not feasible (and costs too much). I've already replaced almost all lighting with LEDs (over 60 luminaires) and that reduced household consumption by a massive 20%. I'll keep chipping away, but even under optimistic scenarios, I will still need the grid for periods of time. And it will only get worse when I get a second EV. Can I change the laws of physics?
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 10, 2017 19:44:30 GMT 11
Can I change the laws of physics? I don't know, but I don't need to, at the moment. Just got my electricity bill and it was $30 credit, and that included charging my LEAF, so I could go off grid right now. Unfortunately I have shadows on half my solar panels in the winter so I'll still need a bit of grid then because even with my 6.4kw battery I don't make quite enough solar to survive off grid. By the way I have solar hot water as well, which takes the pressure off my solar panels.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 11, 2017 13:50:38 GMT 11
About to commit to a 5.23Kw system with Sunpower 327Watt Panels and Fronius inverter, been assured that they are quality products that will last the test of time. Just waiting on a call back from the sales person. I was able to find a quote which was about $1200 less than other solar companies.
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Post by Phoebe on Jan 11, 2017 15:19:30 GMT 11
Can that inverter be used if you get a battery, later? I had to get a new inverter when I got my battery.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 11, 2017 17:48:04 GMT 11
that's a very good question Phoebe when I asked for the quote, I did specify I wanted an inverter with capability of adding a battery down the track. I know that Fronius do have one which is compatible, I will have to confirm that it is the one I am getting.
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Post by 4wardthinking on Jan 12, 2017 6:51:15 GMT 11
that's a very good question Phoebe when I asked for the quote, I did specify I wanted an inverter with capability of adding a battery down the track. I know that Fronius do have one which is compatible, I will have to confirm that it is the one I am getting. I posed this point earlier. The wattmeter devices are a very easy way to trim your power consumption, I have one now for over three years, and it's paid for itself multiple times over now.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 12, 2017 16:51:19 GMT 11
I have confirmed that the inverter is not a hybrid inverter so not battery ready in and of itself. Not actually a deal breaker for me though because it does have a 10 year manufacturer warranty and I am planning install a Tesla battery down the track which actually comes with it's own inverter in the guise of the Tesla Powerwall 2.
So the panels are going in next wednesday, can't wait! Also getting a wifi smart monitor also so I can track in real time via an app the power consumption of the house. Ready to get my geek on!
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 20, 2017 10:45:04 GMT 11
The system was installed on Wednesday, a team of 4 people came and were very professional about it all. It was super sunny yesterday and I managed to generate 37 KWhs. Today being grey and overcast, i doubt I'll generate much.
I next need to wait for my smart metre's feed-in counter to be activated and then contact my retailer to start counting what I feed back into the grid. I was told quickest turn around for this to occur is about 2 weeks, could be longer.
In the mean time, just trying to time delay all my energy-intensive stuff like washing machine and dishwasher to occur during the day to make the most of it.
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Post by pharmadave on Feb 15, 2017 21:56:28 GMT 11
Just a quick update: -18th Jan: Solar panels installed -6th Feb: Certificate of Electrical Safety issued -10th Feb: Smart Metre reprogrammed to count generation & AGL started to count feed-in tariff Current feed-in tariff is 10c/KWh.
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Post by jcan on Feb 16, 2017 9:25:11 GMT 11
I wish Nissan would get their act together and ready the V2G (Vehicle to Grid) for commercialization. That would sure beat the .10kWh we get on solar feed in..... How far away do you think your battery purchase is?
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Post by pharmadave on Feb 16, 2017 9:28:58 GMT 11
I think it will be a while (3-4 years), just can't justify the cost at the moment. Speaking of V2G, there is this prototype made by Honda called the Honda Power Exporter 9000 (or over 9000! =P) which allows EV owners to export their power via Chademo. I think it's supposed to be used to turn your Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell car into a little power plant to power your house but Chademo is Chademo and I'm sure if the device actually is available to purchase, it'll turn the Leaf into a 24KWh storage battery on wheels. cleantechnica.com/2015/10/11/honda-power-9000-lets-ev-owners-power-homes-grid-outages/
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