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Post by stewartm on Nov 4, 2018 8:59:02 GMT 11
Lucky you, mine left warranty before that happened. Yu can get three phase power at caboolture show grounds, also springers solar at Lawnton. I can loan you the Setec charger for the trip down Liz, that way it's only an hour at those places. Ps AEVA EV expo next weekend in Brisbane.
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Post by empowerrepower on Nov 4, 2018 20:45:20 GMT 11
Thank you, that is a lovely offer.
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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 8, 2018 18:25:53 GMT 11
Aargh! Last Tuesday week I drove down to Bris from the Sunshine Coast to get the battery tested, with a view to replacement under warranty. Being rush hour, and needing to stop en route at the Hamilton fast charger to make it with my 85km range, I left at 5.30am and arrived at 8.30am. At that point I discovered that the only tech who can work on the Leaf had just gone home sick.
Have booked it in again on the 18th Dec, but disappointed at all the time and effort last time round, just unlucky. Looking forward to when I have a new battery and can make it to Bris in one go, or even better, they have a dealership up here who can deal with a Leaf.
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Post by stewartm on Dec 10, 2018 14:53:28 GMT 11
That's a serious pain. SETEC is in my boot at work if you need it Liz. Maroochydore Ambulance Station.
Stew
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Post by brunohill on Dec 22, 2018 2:27:58 GMT 11
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jin
Half Charge
Posts: 54
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Post by jin on Dec 27, 2018 22:09:32 GMT 11
brunohill I wonder if they live up to the claims, and if they do, the pricing. Anyone taken up Nissan on the refurbished pack yet? Or installed aftermarket cells? I'm currently down to 72% and starting to feel a little claustrophobic to be honest. A boost of 8% isn't worth the price tag at the moment for the refurb. Would love to hear stories of anyone out there completely replacing the pack, heard a few of people extending only thus far with supplemental packs splicing into the main feed..
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Post by brunohill on Dec 27, 2018 23:19:46 GMT 11
Realistically I think it will be many years before we see Prologium ceramic style or glass solid state batteries suitable for electric cars and would probably require a new or reprogrammed Leaf BMS. I think by the end of 2020 we will start to see cell swaps (here and overseas) happening in LEAF batteries. When they get to the stage where the is nothing left to lose a lot of tinkerers will start to experiment. Their hours of R&D and passion would probably not be economically viable for commercial operations, but once they start having success this could change.
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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 30, 2018 20:55:41 GMT 11
So we took the Leaf to Bris a few weeks back to get the four-bars-down battery looked at, and they rang on Friday and said that the replacement has been approved under warranty. It will be new, come from Japan, and wait for it - the cost to Nissan is apparently $26K! Seems extraordinary to me that a 24km battery unchanged in design from 2011/12 should still be costing that much to manufacture new.
Anyways, so looking forward to better range, as the current 85km is quite limiting when I run several errands on the same day. No idea of how long I'll be waiting - anywhere from 2 to 6 months is what I've heard about from others.
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Post by brunohill on Dec 30, 2018 21:29:33 GMT 11
So we took the Leaf to Bris a few weeks back to get the four-bars-down battery looked at, and they rang on Friday and said that the replacement has been approved under warranty. It will be new, come from Japan, and wait for it - the cost to Nissan is apparently $26K! Seems extraordinary to me that a 24km battery unchanged in design from 2011/12 should still be costing that much to manufacture new. Anyways, so looking forward to better range, as the current 85km is quite limiting when I run several errands on the same day. No idea of how long I'll be waiting - anywhere from 2 to 6 months is what I've heard about from others. Good to hear you are going to get a free replacement. Hopefully the new chemistry will handle your higher average temperatures better. A lot of us are going to miss out. $26k, sounds like that is the amount of profit that they will miss out on by not selling the battery as individual modules as replacement parts.
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Post by empowerrepower on Dec 31, 2018 19:20:15 GMT 11
I'm not sure that it will have the newer "lizard" battery chemistry, even though it will be a newly made battery. I'm thinking that there is a battery code that I might be able to research if I find out what it is. I still think it is appalling that Nissan Australia isn't offering replacement batteries to cars out of warranty at a realistic price, and have wondered whether they are breaking the consumer laws.
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Post by lesmando24 on Jan 1, 2019 19:28:56 GMT 11
The pack will be the same chemistry as the one the car originally came with. I think that is because the car is certified with that combination of battery / controller / car management computers. Also, they delays in manufacturing may be due to that battery chemistry only being produced a few times per year. Renault can do the update to a larger battery, but I am not sure what they replace when that is performed.
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Post by brunohill on Jan 1, 2019 21:53:32 GMT 11
The pack will be the same chemistry as the one the car originally came with. I think that is because the car is certified with that combination of battery / controller / car management computers. Also, they delays in manufacturing may be due to that battery chemistry only being produced a few times per year. Renault can do the update to a larger battery, but I am not sure what they replace when that is performed. If it is the same combination of battery / controller / car management computers and they are especially made for replacements, why do they need a special adapter cable and updated software?? My guess is, the BMS in the battery pack is different. So why is it different if it is the same ? Or perhaps these are the replacement ones that people are paying for in the US.
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jin
Half Charge
Posts: 54
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Post by jin on Jan 2, 2019 12:50:05 GMT 11
Realistically, and in the short term, the best price/weight per kWh should go to Tesla modules thanks to the efforts around the gigafactory.
In saying that, itd be the best course of action for older leafs to be upgraded using Tesla modules, and all the active cooling/BMS/etc it would entail.
Fingers crossed a 3rd party company will take on the r&d works to provide an aftermarket upgrade path for this.
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Post by brunohill on Jan 2, 2019 22:35:12 GMT 11
I just found some Nissan workshop service manuals I had on a disc. The 2011 Leaf manual shows just the original type of battery. The 2012 Leaf manual shows a battery type A (original) and a battery type B ( different cells, with a different service plug). The minimum and maximum cell voltages at both BMS are the same, suggesting that they are interchangeable. I believe it has been confirmed in NZ that the cells are interchangeable (with some slightly modified brackets). Therefore I would expect that Nissan would have no need to keep manufacturing the old type of cell for replacement battery packs. Unfortunately there are no part numbers in the manual.
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Post by lesmando24 on Jan 2, 2019 22:54:28 GMT 11
I know in one update they changed the way the tabs are done on the battery modules and that changed the bus bars, which meant the BMS was moved to a different position in the housing. They update the BMS to match the car computer, as Australia has a different set of patches (usually prefaced with a P) than other countries, but not sure what the differences are. Then they use the special card to pair the BMS to the car. I guess you could swap out modules and default the BMS, it would relearn, but only an engineer from Nissan/AESC could tell you. I would not expect a multi purpose / chemistry BMS in a car.
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Post by brunohill on Jan 2, 2019 23:27:49 GMT 11
It makes you wonder, did they really change the chemistry, or just the module construction that allows it to breath a bit better and not hold the heat inside? This would also make the temperature probes in the battery pack closer to real cell temperature. "Developed new and improved battery chemistry" sounds a lot better than "we corrected an original design fault".
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Post by brunohill on Jan 4, 2019 22:45:59 GMT 11
So the 2012 Leaf Nissan Service manual says the old type battery is type A, and the new lizard battery is type B. An old battery type removed removed from 2012 Leaf had a part NO. 295B0 - 3NA1B. A replaced battery in a 2012 Leaf in the USA had a part NO. 295B0 - 9RB9E (manufactured in 2017). The 3rd last digit is an A on the old one, and the 3rd last digit is a B on the new one.
Could the North Americans be getting new replacement batteries and we are getting old replacement batteries?
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Post by lesmando24 on Jan 6, 2019 20:53:30 GMT 11
Yes, the USA did have more LEAF models 2011 to 2017. But no idea how the packs differ, besides the tabs / bus bar change for 2013 and the new chemistry later.
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Post by stewartm on Jan 11, 2019 12:12:15 GMT 11
Glad Liz got her battery replacement approved. Sadly I'm a 4 bars of loss with no option as the warranty period was out by a few months. Many emails failed to even get buy in from Nissan Australia. My next will not be a Nissan, probably Hyundai. Cant say I have had a good run with Nissan over many issues, always seems like the LEAF was a hindrance to have rather than supportive.
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Post by pharmadave on Jan 11, 2019 16:33:08 GMT 11
Glad Liz got her battery replacement approved. Sadly I'm a 4 bars of loss with no option as the warranty period was out by a few months. Many emails failed to even get buy in from Nissan Australia. My next will not be a Nissan, probably Hyundai. Cant say I have had a good run with Nissan over many issues, always seems like the LEAF was a hindrance to have rather than supportive. The outgoing Nissan Australia CEO did say that the first gen LEAF was a loss making exercise for them when asked about it. I can imagine Nissan Australia celebrating every time a Leaf goes over the 5 year/100,000km limit for the battery warranty to be enacted.
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Post by EVangelist on Jan 11, 2019 20:29:59 GMT 11
We’ve lost 2 bars and crossed 4 years ownership last October. There is virtually no way we’ll lose 2 bars in 9 months and be eligible for a replacement battery.
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Post by brunohill on Jan 12, 2019 8:03:32 GMT 11
Mine has lost 2 bars and has been on the road for 6 years but I recon a Raspberry Pi BMS and some higher capacity batteries will sort it out in about 2020.
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Post by caroline on Jan 12, 2019 22:12:51 GMT 11
Glad Liz got her battery replacement approved. Sadly I'm a 4 bars of loss with no option as the warranty period was out by a few months. Many emails failed to even get buy in from Nissan Australia. My next will not be a Nissan, probably Hyundai. Cant say I have had a good run with Nissan over many issues, always seems like the LEAF was a hindrance to have rather than supportive. Someone posted on the Nissan LEAF Owners Aust facebook page yesterday with a similar case - 2 mths out of warranty - apparently the dealer was useless so he called Nissan Australia: "Then I called Nissan Australia who was much better. I explained I lost my 4th bar and the battery is only 2 months out of warranty. She was saying there's nothing to worry about and told me not to stress over it. She said even though it's out of warranty don't worry about it because if it's lost 4 bars then they are interested in taking the battery to inspect it. You could tell she wanted to say they'll replace it but she was holding back. She even said the warranty period doesn't override or replace my rights under the Australian Consumer Law. She even confirmed this could be classed as a Major failure and they are aware of this." Sounds hopeful? www.facebook.com/groups/1695823577366861/
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Post by EVangelist on Jan 16, 2019 20:39:12 GMT 11
We’ve lost 2 bars and crossed 4 years ownership last October. There is virtually no way we’ll lose 2 bars in 9 months and be eligible for a replacement battery. Looks like I failed to touch wood when I posted this... 3rd bar lost on Sunday, so on average 1 bar every 17 months. So 9 months to go to lose a fourth? Although Caroline’s post above about contacting Nissan directly and the friendly response is encouraging. Really, it’s not acceptable that the primary and most expensive component of a car could lose so much utility so quickly. It would leave a very bad taste if, say, the car almost becomes useless in 10 years for no reason other than the battery. The rest of the car is in great condition. I reckon Fair Trading would take a sympathetic view of this given the dollars involved (which is a relevant consideration). I wonder if a new battery of exactly the same capacity/form factor/cell size but cells with better chemistry would perform much better?
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Post by rusdy on Jan 17, 2019 13:17:17 GMT 11
... it’s not acceptable that the primary and most expensive component of a car could lose so much utility so quickly. It would leave a very bad taste if, say, the car almost becomes useless in 10 years for no reason other than the battery... ... I wonder if a new battery of exactly the same capacity/form factor/cell size but cells with better chemistry would perform much better? I wish it can stay that long (10 years). Looking from this forum only, very unlikely Australian Leafs (2012) can last that long (except the Tasmanian Leaf). From what I observed from other users, degradation of 4 ~ 6% per year is expected (distance is effecting less compared to age and where it is kept, i.e. lucky Tasmanians). This pretty much the only major failing of early Leaf (2011 ~ 2012), that is battery chemistry that degrades too quick in hotter climate. Hence, if you get Leaf imports with the newer chemistry (my guess 2014 and newer), you'll be fine. Note though, Leaf battery chemistry choice appears to be the worst (relative to other EVs) in hot climatic condition. ( read here)
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Post by brunohill on Jan 17, 2019 22:35:10 GMT 11
"Leaf battery chemistry choice appears to be the worst (relative to other EVs) in hot climatic condition." But it is probably the safest, which I guess is their main priority. There would be more bad press if the odd battery explodes than there would be if the odd batteries dies early in a relatively minor market.
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Post by Feng on Feb 13, 2019 14:07:18 GMT 11
philcanberra who hasn't been here for a while got his out of warranty claim for a replacement pack knocked back by Nissan. He then asked his dealer how much it would cost for a new battery: $33,385 installed. There's no other way to describe it, it's a rip off and there's no way anyone in their right mind would buy a new pack. What is Nissan thinking!?
There's another owner gathering other disgruntled owners for a class action suit against Nissan about it.
This is all from the Nissan Leaf Owners Australia Facebook page.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Feb 14, 2019 18:26:36 GMT 11
My 2012 LEAF has three bars gone (low kilometres on the car but in a hot summer climate) and I am expecting to lose the fourth this year. Has anyone managed to negotiate a new battery pack from Nissan when the pack is out of warranty?
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Post by Feng on Feb 15, 2019 0:13:17 GMT 11
$33,385 installed if you're out of warranty.
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bje
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 36
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Post by bje on Feb 17, 2019 21:11:56 GMT 11
That's ridiculous. Looks like my car will be headed for the wreckers, then. How is it sustainable to be building cars with an 8 year life?
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