reecho
EV Enthusiast
Posts: 39
|
Post by reecho on Dec 18, 2014 22:24:18 GMT 11
My recent chat with Nissan confirmed that they do cell level swaps. Not a bad thing if you have a cell failure out of warranty.
|
|
ashcroft
EV Enthusiast
Nothing From me without me.
Posts: 10
|
Post by ashcroft on Dec 18, 2014 23:16:22 GMT 11
I was really hoping that would not be the case... Such an unfortunate business model especially at 1k per cell, new car is cheaper than all cells at that rate. More complex decision now.
|
|
|
Post by gabzimiev on Dec 19, 2014 7:46:25 GMT 11
the problem is that your comparison isn't fair if an ICE car blows is engine on a 5-10 year old car mostly we abandon the entire car, rarely we replace the engine and even more rare we replace it with a new one straight from the factory.
|
|
|
Post by leafboi on Dec 19, 2014 8:17:10 GMT 11
I was really hoping that would not be the case... Such an unfortunate business model especially at 1k per cell, new car is cheaper than all cells at that rate. More complex decision now. I think your looking at it wrong. Why worry about a replacement battery now when you don't need to..? It's all under warranty. By the warranty a expiaty a complete replacement option will be available if you neec or want it then. If you are having such range concerns already I think you need to work on that first maybe?
|
|
ashcroft
EV Enthusiast
Nothing From me without me.
Posts: 10
|
Post by ashcroft on Dec 20, 2014 1:27:50 GMT 11
Don't get me wrong, I want an electric car, I want my first 'brand new' to be a technology I do not inherently find contemptible.
Let's assume I know a lot about batteries, motors, electronics, robotics, programming, engineering, automated manufacture, and have led a very abnormally full life with abnormally broadly ranged experiences.
|
|
|
Post by Feng on Mar 11, 2015 23:59:34 GMT 11
Here's a video of how a battery pack is swapped: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZSX7XlsnNoIt's in Russian and the part with the battery propped on a spare tire looks a bit homebrew. Some interesting bits such as where everything fits and where the connectors go.
|
|
|
Post by JohnChidgey on Jun 18, 2016 16:53:03 GMT 11
Does anyone know if it's possible to get the replacement battery through Nissan in Australia yet? And if so, how much?
|
|
|
Post by leafboi on Jun 18, 2016 23:15:28 GMT 11
Does anyone know if it's possible to get the replacement battery through Nissan in Australia yet? And if so, how much? I have been told by both Nissan corporate and two dealers it is listed as a non serviceable part. No price. No avability. No chance of getting one unless it's under warranty it would seem. They just shrugged their shoulders (via the tone in their voice over the phone) and told me there was nothing they could do. Maybe it needs more people to ask.
|
|
|
Post by EVangelist on Jun 19, 2016 16:18:46 GMT 11
Does anyone know if it's possible to get the replacement battery through Nissan in Australia yet? And if so, how much? I have been told by both Nissan corporate and two dealers it is listed as a non serviceable part. No price. No avability. No chance of getting one unless it's under warranty it would seem. They just shrugged their shoulders (via the tone in their voice over the phone) and told me there was nothing they could do. What?!? Is that even legal under Australian consumer law? Unless Nissan advised us at the time of purchase that once the battery was no longer "fit for purpose" the whole car becomes a giant paperweight because they will not offer spares (which in my case, they gave no such advice), I think we would have justifiable argument under consumer law that Nissan must source a replacement battery, because we would reasonably expect a car to last 10 to 20 years, if not longer.
|
|
|
Post by earlyadopter on Sept 4, 2016 9:45:27 GMT 11
Recently my 2012 Leaf required a battery repair. At first I was given the impression that the entire battery pack was being replaced. Turned out to be a single cell replacement. If it wasn't under warranty the cost would have been $1600 for 1 of the 48 cells. Crazy and yes I asked, Nissan Australia has no battery replacement program. I agree, we have been scammed into buying a vehicle that can't be serviced. I guess we could replace all of the cells, $1600 * 48 is only $76,800, that's reasonable right?
|
|
|
Post by Feng on Sept 4, 2016 17:53:18 GMT 11
Hopefully they'll change their policy in a few years when it becomes a necessity. If there are enough of us still around we could start a petition to let them know there's a customer base for it. Otherwise I'll be looking into importing a salvage battery and attempt a DIY.
Welcome to the forum earlyadopter.
|
|
|
Post by quaternary on Sept 4, 2016 20:19:40 GMT 11
Recently my 2012 Leaf required a battery repair. At first I was given the impression that the entire battery pack was being replaced. Turned out to be a single cell replacement. If it wasn't under warranty the cost would have been $1600 for 1 of the 48 cells. Crazy and yes I asked, Nissan Australia has no battery replacement program. I agree, we have been scammed into buying a vehicle that can't be serviced. I guess we could replace all of the cells, $1600 * 48 is only $76,800, that's reasonable right? Hi earlyadopter. Interesting to hear that Nissan replaced one of your cells. I'm curious to know how you managed to convince them that there was a problem worth fixing? What data did you need to present them with? Thanks, Mark
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 7, 2016 10:22:46 GMT 11
I am still waiting on mine. It has had a few modules removed for rebalancing, but none have been deemed faulty yet.
|
|
|
Post by rusdy on Sept 7, 2016 12:07:50 GMT 11
I am still waiting on mine. It has had a few modules removed for rebalancing, but none have been deemed faulty yet. Do keep us an update. I'm very curious now how those batteries perform (the actual SOH) after all those 100kkm.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 7, 2016 13:52:00 GMT 11
I'd be watching too. The big words replacing and balancing worry me with work and real knowledge often separated by an apprentice learning on my investment. Actually isn't rocket science to do, but I just have concerns. Once our pack is through warranty, I'll obtain item/s to do my own I think. I've had far too many shoddy, yet expensive dealer interventions on my expensive investments to risk anything. I can see a distinct module lacking in our pack, but until I get the necessary, I'm just watching. .... And observing this thread. Theoretically the repair should have longevity commensurate with time to problem from new. I'm unsure what the procedure they employ will be as accurate as when factory constructed. The trouble with replacing modules is balancing them property-wise. A few milli-ohms when time and costing is applied may be aparrently nothing, but over a short time, it can take its toll, and if not done correctly, the pack may only last another 18 months, if lucky, which gives abstention from warranty for it. I suppose the big question will be the warranty on work carried out. That will be the indicator. Now Nissan have a great interest in making any packs, or parts of scarce. If the "dealer" is the only one that can get modules, then the repair and longevity of the vehicle are out of any form of owner control, and subject to quality of work. Still, I'm wondering if they will replace the alternator belt as part of the service!.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 7, 2016 14:01:33 GMT 11
I am still waiting on mine. It has had a few modules removed for rebalancing, but none have been deemed faulty yet. Do keep us an update. I'm very curious now how those batteries perform (the actual SOH) after all those 100kkm. Interesting. How can they balance them when removed?. They are probably charge reconditioning them, as balancing is with respect to the entire pack electrically. If they come into spec with respect to the rest, then the charge circuitry may be able to take over, as long as they haven't put an unusual load on the adjacent modules. I found that if one module became weak, it rapidly transferred load to its neighboring modules in other HV packs I've experienced. The next thing they need to know is internal resistance. I'm guessing, but not yet have myself, that diags will give a figure, but that is dependent upon electrical connection quality. This is at present, postulation on my behalf of course.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 7, 2016 14:15:56 GMT 11
I have been told by both Nissan corporate and two dealers it is listed as a non serviceable part. No price. No avability. No chance of getting one unless it's under warranty it would seem. They just shrugged their shoulders (via the tone in their voice over the phone) and told me there was nothing they could do. What?!? Is that even legal under Australian consumer law? Unless Nissan advised us at the time of purchase that once the battery was no longer "fit for purpose" the whole car becomes a giant paperweight because they will not offer spares (which in my case, they gave no such advice), I think we would have justifiable argument under consumer law that Nissan must source a replacement battery, because we would reasonably expect a car to last 10 to 20 years, if not longer. Now as Nissan already know, the price to Australia, and price to the consumer are often widely spaced. The price looks like it hasn't been "set" to me. In which case there is no denial of spares or parts, just the gravy train hasn't been established. They could(Nissan Australia) theoretically charge anything they like, and just like the Toyota Hybrid packs, be so expensive, the cars were all too readily canned prematurely, and wrecking the future prospective sales... Then Jo Public will still want to buy an oil burner, 'cos dem electric thingies are very expensive after 3-4 years old.
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 7, 2016 17:07:50 GMT 11
To rebalance, they remove the module that has the "out of balance" cell and the module either side (12 cells all up). Then they balance the three modules. I have another 8 modules to be rebalanced, and it takes about 5 hours to perform a rebalance, so will be a while.
|
|
|
Post by Feng on Sept 7, 2016 17:15:25 GMT 11
How long has it been off the road for?
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 8, 2016 16:50:24 GMT 11
About 4 weeks now
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 9, 2016 16:55:32 GMT 11
Got a call today, 8 modules needing rebalancing means 24 modules need to be rebalanced. 5 hours per module, so another 4 weeks. Also my battery controller is unhappy and says a full charge is 10km, but Japan says wait until the modules are rebalanced.
|
|
|
Post by Feng on Sept 9, 2016 17:26:20 GMT 11
Colour me cynical, ever wondered if they're taking forever for another reason and they're just giving you a cover story?
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 10, 2016 8:44:44 GMT 11
Not really, it is just a pain in the arse process. As they balance them, others are then picked up as out of balance. Is a design issue of the battery pack. And the process to fix it takes a lot of time. Will have to see what the outcome is.
|
|
|
Post by caskings on Sept 10, 2016 14:17:12 GMT 11
I hope you aren't on the hook for the full labour costs
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Sept 10, 2016 15:49:57 GMT 11
Not sure, Nissan Australia haven't said anything yet. I have racked up about $1200 so far.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 20, 2016 10:16:35 GMT 11
That's the trouble with balance/check/find next weak item. It's a game of Whack-a-Mole. All serial connected batteries have the same issues. It's the inadvertent stray extra load on another module that causes the rot. Technically they would have to tear the whole pack apart, and start with IR readings. The load test with graphical matching. Personally I don't trust dealerships to have this tech ability, and would have a hard time accepting a 'fix' from them. Unless they warranted their work, with a fail & replace. I'd rather do it myself, but the illegal 'closed shop' hinders it. Like Feng, I'd rather get a slow imported replacement from overseas, and sell the old one/use myself for Solar energy storage... And feed one pack into another via DC at my leisure.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Sept 20, 2016 10:22:44 GMT 11
Colour me cynical, ever wondered if they're taking forever for another reason and they're just giving you a cover story? A new catch phrase is beginning to emerge now for many reasons. It's called "The Great Australian Wait". I come from a small island in the Northern Hemisphere, and we have an expression similar there. Difficult to write, but it's "any time'll do", Spain has a similar one "mañana". I'd check on who is picking up the bill if I was you, and get it in writing. It could be ugly, while your time and money pays for someone to learn.
|
|
|
Post by lesmando24 on Oct 2, 2016 22:54:42 GMT 11
It looks like my 8 modules are not able to be balanced. Nissan Australia sent an engineer to check the dealers results. Then Nissan Japan said they would release 8 plates (not sure what a plate is, maybe they meant module). So will see what happens when the parts arrive.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Oct 3, 2016 12:54:55 GMT 11
Is there a warranty for work carried out is the next question. By the sound of it, it appears to be blind leading the blind if no one can categorically state their findings.
My gut feeling is they may well be on a "Whack-a-Mole" start of game, and the next modules will begin to fail.
Get a firm warranty undertaking. If the guess work they bill Nissan with exceeds the cost to supply & fit a lizard, then you will be getting it replaced as a whole.
It's taken a very long time, and aparrently many hands, and still no real result.
I would be marching in every day asking for progress report. I sure you bought the car for reasons more than a test bed for N.A franchises.
Another reason for me to do any power pack work myself if this is the expertise in Australia.
To me, this is diabolical service. You have the patience of the Dali Lama.
|
|
|
Post by 4wardthinking on Oct 3, 2016 13:37:26 GMT 11
Here's a good link of how it "can" be done at mynissnanleaf.com Look under Battery replacement section.
I'd direct the franchise fooling around with yours to it.
|
|