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Post by stewartm on May 25, 2014 17:52:52 GMT 11
Interesting on the OpenEVSE, I may look at one for my french house. I assume that I can just wire in a Mennekes IEC 62196-2 plug to go in the Renault Zoe. It uses the SAE J1772 signalling as I understand it so should be the same system. Interested to see how yours goes. I will probably get the pre-built kit, should be easier. I have found the EMW box to be good and reliable for here in Oz, but I concede that the Open one seems better value.
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Post by riddick on Jun 22, 2014 23:18:45 GMT 11
Finally my OpenEVSE is done! It took quite some time to receive the missing part as it got lost in the post and had to be resent. Some pictures: My final cost did not change and stands at $344 as I had the j1772 cable + I have a 3D printer and could print the j1772 socket. I have set it to charge at 16A now and have charged like that a few times. One thing I am missing is that it does not display the cost or the power that is uses. I may need to load a custom firmware...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 23:29:42 GMT 11
riddick are you able to a) stick your unit on a 15A power meter? b) set it to 32A and see what is being drawn by the LEAF.
Brian's repaired Circontrol unit seems be a 32A unit as it draws 17A while RAVolt's pristine 16A Circontrol box draws <16A.
with the volt, it is interesting how the circontrol 16A unit negotiates a max charge of 10A hence I bought the 32A model which charges volt at 14A. haven't had a reply from circontrol as to why this is the case & I haven't bothered following it up.
imiev behaves itself on all 16A/32A EVSEs and wall boxes; 13A
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Post by caskings on Jun 22, 2014 23:30:38 GMT 11
Very nice looking build and print.
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Post by gabzimiev on Jun 23, 2014 0:05:36 GMT 11
I see you re-purposed a betterplace J1772 cable.
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Post by riddick on Jun 23, 2014 18:35:50 GMT 11
As to measuring the current drawn, I do not have a 15A power meter, only a 10A one. Probably a better way of going about it is to get the display to work and show the power drawn and the associated cost. The current in itself is not a good measure as the voltage can vary quite a bit. For example, my house has over 250V and if the solar is firing then it is at least 255V. It used to be even higher well above 260V until I called out the power company and asked them to reduce it as my solar was faulting with over voltage a lot.
I would suggest that this is exactly why you may get the 16 to 17A discrepancy. 16A drawn 255V is exactly 17A at 240V.
Anyway, once the display is working the way I want, then I will post some of the figures I get. As a rough guide my house power meter read about an extra 3.3kW consumption when the Leaf was charging. This is only about 13A, but it was exactly what I was expecting based on the 2012 Leaf specs
And yes, I used the better place cable, I had one that was already cut and still had 6m of wiring on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 20:50:30 GMT 11
Jim can you check with dean about warranty issue if one uses a Holden 10a evse?
Allegedly northside nissan says that it is not warranted.
Can others also check with their nissan dealers Tia.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 20:55:05 GMT 11
My point is that the original 16amp circontrol box (cb) negotiates 13-16 amp charge
While 32 amp cb charges at >16 amps
My hunch is that there is something interesting with both volt and leaf in terms of charge negotiation.
Imiev sticks to its 13 amps
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Post by riddick on Jun 24, 2014 17:03:14 GMT 11
g4qber, is this in the same house? If not then you also need to measure the voltage to make sense of your charging discrepancy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 19:48:03 GMT 11
good point. may have to visit brian / ravolt / jeffjl again one of these days to confirm charging the imiev on their power. perhaps jeffjl lives closer to me. here is the post, patrick from E-station also was suggesting different voltages. ozleaf.proboards.com/thread/64/installing-non-nissan-origin-charger?page=3the interesting thing is that different EVSEs negotiate different charge levels. and the leaf pulls >16A on the 16A circontrol boxes.
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Post by riddick on Jun 24, 2014 21:50:39 GMT 11
The spec says that the Volt can charge at 3.3kW. What you need to make sure is that the EVSE can supply whatever current is required at the give voltage. The EVSE advertises how much it can supply via the Pilot signal (duty cycle of the square wave). If the EVSE lets you set the required amps, then all is well. If it is hard wired, then there is not much you can do.
I guess measuring the duty cycle is also not that accurate as components will have some tolerances on them (up to 10%), so the same brand unit may supply something slightly different in a different build.
With OpenEVSE, I do not have this problem, as I can set the highest amps that is needed by the Leaf (taking into account that my circuit breaker is 16A).
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Post by jeffjl on Jun 25, 2014 20:56:47 GMT 11
good point. may have to visit brian / ravolt / jeffjl again one of these days to confirm charging the imiev on their power. perhaps jeffjl lives closer to me. here is the post, patrick from E-station also was suggesting different voltages. ozleaf.proboards.com/thread/64/installing-non-nissan-origin-charger?page=3the interesting thing is that different EVSEs negotiate different charge levels. and the leaf pulls >16A on the 16A circontrol boxes. Yangebup. Brian may be closer.
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Post by southernvolt on Aug 5, 2014 16:43:03 GMT 11
Resurrecting an old thread . It's hard to find a simple answer to this question and of course people's needs vary but I'm hoping to call on the significant experience of everyone here to help me avoid making mistakes. I'm thinking I want an at home solution so that I can make it easier for other family members to plug in the car and keep the Nissan one in the boot. I would like to get the best/fastest charge option possible for the at home unit (keeping cost down of course). I like the usability of the wall mounted style units but am not averse to a plug in one as I can rig up a wall style mount and for all intents and purposes it will be a fixed wall mounted style unit. My options seem to be: OpenEVSE or Juicebox or Holden Volt charger. OpenEV has it for $255 at the moment (http://openevse-store.myshopify.com/products/openevse-30a-charge-station-combo) and there's aHolden one on fleabay for $346.50. I think I have 2 standard 10 amp powerpoints in the Garage but there's also a powerpoint that used to have a hot water system plugged into it which could be 30amp. I'm not really sure of the simplest way to tell. There's a breaker in the power box that is labelled Hot Water System and it is a 30amp breaker. THe water system was replaced by an instant gas one years ago but it's in the same place as there's evidence of where the old system was. I was thinking I'd just plug the Nissan unit into either the standard ones or the hot water. Now I'm assuming I could go the OpenEV route and then get an electrician to come in and fit a powerpoint for it but do you think that's the right way to go? Or bang for buck the Volt one? I have a $500 max budget for it all (and a cheap sparky on call).
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Post by gabzimiev on Aug 5, 2014 19:00:47 GMT 11
OpenEVSE and Juicebox are for people with a sound knowledge of electronics and electricity. 15amps hot joint can easily create a fire. so buy a Holden one. if you want to break your budget by a small margin (unit cost is $495 shipping is less than $100) buy a clipper creek one [1] so you can charge at 15amps. ask your sparky to direct wire it to a J-box. it's not approved in Australia but tons safer than a open EVSE and a juicebox that has been incorrectly made. also note that openEV one that you linked to didn't include the J1772 plug and cable by the looks of it. [1] www.clippercreek.com/store/product/lcs-20e-international/
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Post by lesmando24 on Aug 5, 2014 19:43:26 GMT 11
Also, another thing to watch out for when using the 10amp brick, is poor quality sockets. You are using 2400 watts for 6-8 hours, things can get hot. I used a 10 to 15 convertor (like the jaycar), and the plug was super hot. It melted the plug slightly.
Also, I had a 15amp socket installed by a sparky and used my 10amp brick, and similar thing. In both cases I had the sockets replaced with higher quality parts and have never had a problem again.
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Post by Phoebe on Aug 5, 2014 22:14:11 GMT 11
When using 10-15 amp converter, I use 15 amp cable on the 10amp plugs. At least the cable stays cool even though the plugs warm up.
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Post by riddick on Aug 6, 2014 16:08:34 GMT 11
Go OpenEVSE (!), but of course I am biased as that is what I have. You really only need some very basic skills and you can buy the fully assembled boards for slightly more if you want to avoid soldering. It is not rocket science and with basic care you can ensure your connections are good.
I disagree that OpenEVSE is less safe, it is in fact safer then commercial units as it shuts down in cases where commercial ones do not (provided it has been put together correctly, which you can test). Also it is housed in a metallic box, so even if something is terribly wrong and it overheats, it will be contained to the inside of the box (and it should also trip by that time).
I can also supply you with cheap J1772 cables, should you need them (drop me a message if you do).
Re 30A powerpoint, just pull down your breaker and see what goes off, to see if that 30A circuit is really only goes to the hot water unit outlet. Sounds like you have a good circuit to use, forget the 10A ones as with OpenEVSE you want to charge at higher rates. Do you remember what power was your hot water unit to be extra sure?
I would not get the Holden one as that is a very slow charger...
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Post by riddick on Aug 6, 2014 16:22:59 GMT 11
Phoebe, while using a 15A cable sounds like a good idea, it think it may be safer to use a 10A cable. Your weakest link is inside the house now, if it is a 10A circuit. You want your weakest link outside of the house!!
For example, a while back I was welding my gate and plugged in a 10A Bunnings extension into a 15A socket, so that it is not running on a shared circuit. The welder was also a 10A welder. I ended up setting my 10A cable on fire next to the plug, even though it was rated at 10A, perhaps it has thinned out from the use? (although it was never abused).
While your cable should not be used as a fuse, it is still best to match the cable to what you do IMHO, imagine if it burnt inside instead.
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Post by gabzimiev on Aug 6, 2014 16:54:13 GMT 11
I disagree that OpenEVSE is less safe, it is in fact safer then commercial units as it shuts down in cases where commercial ones do not (provided it has been put together correctly, which you can test). Also it is housed in a metallic box, so even if something is terribly wrong and it overheats, it will be contained to the inside of the box (and it should also trip by that time). I can't agree the risk of personal injury, is much higher. that the added safety of the design allowing for shutdown on lack of ventilation which was the only big claim of openEVSE. the metallic box also allow the case to float at 240volts if a connection becomes loose. and what's the point of having the extra protection is the relay gets put in incorrectly and either fuses closed. "(provided it has been put together correctly, which you can test)" is a big IF and if they don't have to knowledge to identify where a circuit goes in there house for an old hot water system. they don't have the tools or the knowledge to correctly construct and test a openEVSE.
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Post by southernvolt on Aug 9, 2014 0:29:02 GMT 11
Turns out the power points in both the garage and the one on the wall next to the hot water service are all 10amp standard ones. So it's 8 hour charges for me at the moment. I don't know what the higher amp breakers in the box are for yet as they are labelled hot water but they are old labels. The new hot water was already in when we bought and we haven't even been here long enough to get electrical work done so haven't had a chance to get a sparky in and pick his brains.
I'm leaning towards the clipper creek as even though it's a bit more expensive it's turn key and just requires the sparky to setup a 20-30 amp power connection.
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Post by jeffjl on Aug 11, 2014 0:15:09 GMT 11
SV, I am only using the supplied cable with a dedicated 15A plug. I have never not had enough time to get the car to 80% even with very late nights and early mornings (I limit myself to off peak rates as well). Remember that that eight hour charge is from dead flat to 100%. Still yet to come close to requiring faster charging.
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Post by southernvolt on Aug 11, 2014 21:03:57 GMT 11
SV, I am only using the supplied cable with a dedicated 15A plug. I have never not had enough time to get the car to 80% even with very late nights and early mornings (I limit myself to off peak rates as well). Remember that that eight hour charge is from dead flat to 100%. Still yet to come close to requiring faster charging. Thanks. I only have a 10 amp plug to use with the supplied cable at the moment. It's working OK as I have been putting it on overnight. But tonight I have come home with 27kms showing on the GOM and I need to go back out for a 60km round trip. This will be a weekly occurrence so I'm hoping to be able to get home and do a top up charge to give me the extra range. If not it's back to the diesel. Given my daily commute is 70kms and the evening trip will be 50-60kms I thought I'd be OK on a 100% charge but it's been more like 100kms range so far so not good enough unfortunately. Hopefully this will change as it warms up and I don't need the heater. I am getting a bigger amp power point installed first while I wait for the Clipper Creek EVSE so will see how just the extra amperage works out.
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Post by gabzimiev on Aug 11, 2014 23:51:48 GMT 11
Is charging at work a option ? Unfortunately the heaters in the leaf and imiev suck. Just consume power. I hope you're preheating in the morning thats a nice feature the I doesn't have.
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Post by southernvolt on Aug 12, 2014 0:14:17 GMT 11
Is charging at work a option ? Unfortunately the heaters in the leaf and imiev suck. Just consume power. I hope you're preheating in the morning thats a nice feature the I doesn't have. Unfortunately no as work has said it's too hard to work out the logistics . I really feel they just wanted to put up some blockers so I'd go away and not cause trouble. I have setup my climate timer for the morning so I hop into a toasty warm car.
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Post by jeffjl on Aug 12, 2014 1:01:30 GMT 11
Thanks. I only have a 10 amp plug to use with the supplied cable at the moment. It's working OK as I have been putting it on overnight. But tonight I have come home with 27kms showing on the GOM and I need to go back out for a 60km round trip. This will be a weekly occurrence so I'm hoping to be able to get home and do a top up charge to give me the extra range. If not it's back to the diesel. Given my daily commute is 70kms and the evening trip will be 50-60kms I thought I'd be OK on a 100% charge but it's been more like 100kms range so far so not good enough unfortunately. Hopefully this will change as it warms up and I don't need the heater. I am getting a bigger amp power point installed first while I wait for the Clipper Creek EVSE so will see how just the extra amperage works out. Ah, 130km/day. Yes, I would be looking at a level 2 charger as well.
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Post by leafboi on Aug 12, 2014 10:12:17 GMT 11
Given my daily commute is 70kms and the evening trip will be 50-60kms I thought I'd be OK on a 100% charge but it's been more like 100kms range so far so not good enough unfortunately. Hopefully this will change as it warms up and I don't need the heater. Totally off topic... Where are you traveling on the extra evening trip, do you pass near the fast charger at Swinburne? It's always an option to stop by for 10-15mins to grab 30-40kms...
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Post by quaternary on Aug 22, 2014 19:45:39 GMT 11
I've found this thread very helpful. And I see that different model Leafs appear to have different specifications when it comes to the car's charging system. For example I see reference to built in systems of 3.3 kW or 6.6kW. Now my Leaf is an Australian model that was assembled in June 2012. According to the "Owner's Manual" (which has a sticker in it with 'Nissan Motor Co (Australia) Pty Ltd' - it really is an Ozzie), on page 9-3, the maximum power consumption is specified as 2.4kW, and maximum rated current as 10A (as per attached image). So in terms of recommended wall chargers, the answer seems to be that while one could spend money buying a convenient wall mounted unit, and while it may have the capability of delivering 15/16 Amps or even 32 Amps as described in this thread, due to my car's charging system (which has max power consumption of 2.4 kW), 10 Amps or thereabouts will be the most current that the car is going to be drawing from the wall charger. So if my only consideration was charging rate (ie, time to charge), then I may as well stick with the EVSE unit that was supplied with the car; as I measured this to be supplying 2.4kW, which I am thinking is as much as I'm ever going to be able to push into my car. Ie, for my particular model Leaf, the car's charging system seems to be the limiting factor, not the charger. Have I got my logic correct? Thanks for any suggestions / corrections.
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Post by Feng on Aug 22, 2014 21:21:02 GMT 11
The manual might just be listing the specs to the supplied EVSE. The car can definitely take 3.3kW. Whether you want to take advantage of that slightly higher amount depends on if you want to spend a few extra dollars to charge from 9 hours 6 hours from completely empty.
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Post by quaternary on Aug 23, 2014 11:07:46 GMT 11
I'm pretty sure that that part of the manual is referring to the car specs. Maybe it's a typo?
So I thought I'd look for another source of information, so I requested the Leaf brochure from the Nissan Australia website. Paraphrasing the section on charging:
When your Nissan LEAF is charged in Normal Charging mode overnight, it will be fully charged in the morning so you can start driving right away. Please be aware that in order to charge Nissan LEAF at home, you must install approved charging equipment using an approved electrical contractor. Charging time Approx 8 hr* *From the time the low battery warning comes on until the battery is fully charged.
So let's calculate the implied power consumption of this scenario for the "approved charging equipment using an approved electrical contractor" (which is not the EVSE, right); well, elsewhere I see that the low battery warning comes on when you have about 17.4% battery remaining. That means you've used 82.6% of the 21kWh accessible part of the battery, which is 17.3kWh. So 17.3kWh over 8 hours is a power of 2.2kW, which is pretty close to the 2.4kW that is specified in the Owner's Manual.
I know the Leafs can consume 3.3kW in the major overseas markets, but are we really sure that our Australian Leafs are really capable of consuming 3.3kW? If it was, the brochure would be saying 5.2 hours, rather than 8 hours.
And even in this thread people are rather vague about the benefits of a 15A-capable wall unit as opposed to the 10A EVSE unit supplied with the car: "Seems like the 10a chargers only take about 20% longer to charge".
The numbers don't seem to be stacking up, but maybe I've got things wrong?
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Post by gabzimiev on Aug 23, 2014 11:12:32 GMT 11
I know the Leafs can consume 3.3kW in the major overseas markets, but are we really sure that our Australian Leafs are really capable of consuming 3.3kW? that we are sure of we've had plenty of people measure the amps. when we use the chargepoint public charger they measure the power as well. which also confirms it. where is the nearest charger on plugshare to you ? I'll tell you if it's powerful enough to test your theory.
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