johngipps
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 5
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by johngipps on Feb 5, 2020 16:22:38 GMT 11
I bought a 40KWH Leaf in December 2019 - so I'm very much on a learning curve. Congrats and welcome to the world of BEV driving! My average consumption so far (over 2400km) is 14.5KWH/100km. This is with ePedal ON (always), Mode D or B set (these days, always mode B), and with the aircon ON (always) - I didn't buy the car to be uncomfortable, and Qld is averagely quite warm. While I experimented with ECO mode initially, I leave it off now. The car is so much nicer to drive without ECO mode in my opinion. My lifetime average over 5 years is 142 Wh/km, almost always driving in Eco. So 145 is good with AC on and non-Eco. Thanks for the welcome Evangelist. While I leave ECO off, I try to keep acceleration moderate. Must say though, it's nice to have some quite good oomf when really you need it. John
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johngipps
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 5
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by johngipps on Feb 5, 2020 17:35:31 GMT 11
Thank you Johngipps . There is a few videos on YouTube on how to access the service area slightly complicated but you should be able to ask the Nissan Service Department to find it for you. You should be able to find where the car was built on the plate where your VIN number is. I'm glad they supply a granny cable as well. The 7kw Charger you are installing is it going to be a 16amp or 32 amp connection ? Having seen many videos on charging I recall a chart that puts the 30% to 70% charge amount as the one which will give the longest life. 20% to 80% isn't bad either. The basic rules to go by is try and charge on AC as much as possible as it doesn't heat the battery to high levels. Try not to charge too much as each charge is one less cycle for your battery life. The Ambient temperature (unless you park outside continually on hot days) has little effect on the battery temperature. Yes the Battery Temperature does affect you SOH and life cycle and its most affected by DC rapid charging. Can I ask how long it takes your 16a YKS lead to charge your car and how much faster is the 7kw charger going to be? Hi weareallbrown. My apologies to all for my late responses - I haven't yet received any email notifications of responses to my initial post - took me a while to find out.
I have been hitting YouTube pretty hard, and have picked up quite a bit from it. I have found this forum very useful too. Maybe I've reached the 5% level on my learning curve. My practice so far with charging has been to charge from 20 or 30 percent typically, right up to 100%. I have done this because the range I'm working with is only about 250km, and stopping charge at 80% would make that about 200km. Please give me some feedback here if you think taking it to 100% regularly is going to have a big impact on SOH.
The 7KW EVSE will be 32A at 240V - if the line voltage drops to 220V at 32A (which I expect), that's still 7KW. I haven't chosen an EVSE yet. Your comments on charging cycles, with the further comment by Evangelist are thought provoking. I measure the energy input of each charge, and keep a spreadsheet of the car data (just from the dash - not from an app) and my own data. So as of today, my total charging is at 1132% ( the sum of all the charging increments) - so I guess that's 11.3 charging cycles. It's interesting to correlate the total charge energy to the % reported by the car. The 1132% has resulted from an input energy of 414 KWH. From these numbers, you can deduce that 100% as reported by the car, results from an input of 36.6 KWH as measured by me. I don't know the efficiency of the charger in the car - but I'd be disappointed if it was less than 95%, and this is easily achievable with a switchmode charger. So 36.6KWH from the mains supply into the charger might represent about 35 KWH into the battery. So the % reported by the car seems to be a % of about 35KWH, and it seems to me that about 5KWH is not made available to me from the 40KWH battery capacity. Comments please.
In answer to your question on the YKS lead... I always charge at 16A, and have verified the current with a clamp meter - it reads a little over 16A. The line voltage during charge is typically about 220V, so the input power to the in-car charger is about 3.5KW. So as an example, charging from 30% to 100%, which is typically what I'm doing, takes about 0.7*36.6/3.5=7.32 hours - about 7hrs 20mins. I find that the charge proceeds at the full input of about 3.5KW until about 98% is reached, and then the BMS in the car stays active for about an extra hour or so completing the charge (the final 2%). With 7KW, I expect to halve the time taken with the the YKS lead at 16A.
Regards John
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Post by weareallbrown on Feb 7, 2020 23:55:25 GMT 11
I suggest you look at Lemon-Tea Leaf on You Tube he has heaps on Battery charging and trips. He did numerous trips under rapid gate and tried various methods to try and stop overheating and slower charges on DC chargers. Then in about early 2019 the BMS firmware made rapid gate almost go away so he did further tests. But having read many tests and views on You Tube the 30 to 70% charge regime will prolong the life of the battery but 20 to 80% is the most practical for city commuters and gives a decent battery life. So it depends on how far you need to travel each day but if you can avoid going to 100% then its best to do so . A slow 100% on A/C chargers is best before a long trip and probably once a month as this seems to stabilise the batteries SOH. When I hopefully get my 40kw Nissan Leaf I am buying the Zappi www.evolutionaustralia.com.au/product-page/zappi-7kw-type-1-or-type-2 as it can feed my solar into the Car during the day and distributes the energy between what the house needs and the car. And if I get really rich I'll put in a Battery so can charge 100% clean energy. The Leaf has been driven to when it just has dashes showing so no range left but in fact it still gets around 10 to 16 kms depending on conditions to find the nearest charger. Do you have LeafSpy as this will give you a more accurate reading of % of Charge? I've found most EV's quickly charge to 80% then slowly to 100% but not really 100% perhaps to prolong the life of the battery some have charged with just a cable on A/C and have managed to put a bit more in closer to 100% . I think 37% is the Average for most people charging to 100%. The YKS seems to perform very well time wise and Yes 16a should help a great deal.
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johngipps
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 5
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by johngipps on Feb 9, 2020 2:03:18 GMT 11
"I suggest you look at Lemon-Tea Leaf on You Tube he has heaps on Battery charging and trips." Thanks I'll have a look. "20 to 80% is the most practical for city commuters and gives a decent battery life. A slow 100% on A/C chargers is best before a long trip" Sounds sensible - most of my usage would fit into 60% of 250km - and as you say, leave the 100% charging for long trips. I'm in the process of setting up a separate off grid PV system to charge the car during the day - I've bought 40 X 190W panels to put on East West roof surfaces for this purpose. So eventually I expect to have the 7KW EVSE charging at night on Tariff 31, and the off grid solar PV system charging during the day up to an as yet unknown maximum level - but bound to be useful. "Do you have LeafSpy as this will give you a more accurate reading of % of Charge?"I bought LeafSpy Pro, but found that my current rubbishy OBDII had limited functionality with it. I've ordered a LELink Low Energy OBDII, and will receive it in a week or so. "I've found most EV's quickly charge to 80% then slowly to 100% but not really 100% perhaps to prolong the life of the battery some have charged with just a cable on A/C and have managed to put a bit more in closer to 100% . I think 37% is the Average for most people charging to 100%. The YKS seems to perform very well time wise and Yes 16a should help a great deal."The YKS lead is only setting the maximum current that the car can charge at (6A to 16A in 1A steps). So the car's BMS is making all the decisions re charge current up to the maximum requested by whatever charging cable I use. I imagine that it's happy to allow the full 16A that I charge at up to 98% simply because at that modest current level, there's probably not much battery temperature rise happening. I had the same performance previously when I was using the 10A granny cable that came with the car - it would charge at 10A right up to 98%, and then typically take an hour to complete the charge (the last 2%). I assume this is balancing the cells. When I've observed a clamp meter during the last 2%, the current fluctuates a lot during that period - pretty well from zero to whatever current has been set as the max. Appreciate your advice Weareallbrown. Regards John
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Post by weareallbrown on Feb 9, 2020 14:31:11 GMT 11
Good to see you'll be getting Solar it seems a big system but you probably need it. Sorry about the 37% mistake I meant 37 Kw when the Battery is 100%.. I only have a a 5.2 Kw Solar system but my wife and I (even when our Adult daughter was staying as well) use only about a third of the solar and the rest back to the grid at 15c a kwh. Once I get a Nissan 40kw (some demos around $48,000) and put in the Zappi I will be charging mostly during the day as we don't get the 31 tariff. Our Heat Pump Hot Water system requires very little electricity and its the only thing running overnight. So I'd be interested to see how much it is to charge a Leaf on Tariff 31. And thanks for the advice on LELink OBDII as I will be getting Leaf Pro when I get the car.Do you use a Bluetooth or WIFI link? Can I ask does the Leaf have a Nissan Connects system? As I'm interested in the remote heating/cooling the car through an APP on a Smartphone. APPS work through Connects such as this one apps.apple.com/us/app/eva-leaf/id1050429958
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Post by tomkauf on Feb 9, 2020 16:16:18 GMT 11
Once I get a Nissan 40kw (some demos around $48,000) and put in the Zappi I will be charging mostly during the day as we don't get the 31 tariff. Our Heat Pump Hot Water system requires very little electricity and its the only thing running overnight. So I'd be interested to see how much it is to charge a Leaf on Tariff 31. And thanks for the advice on LELink OBDII as I will be getting Leaf Pro when I get the car.Do you use a Bluetooth or WIFI link? Can I ask does the Leaf have a Nissan Connects system? As I'm interested in the remote heating/cooling the car through an APP on a Smartphone. APPS work through Connects such as this one apps.apple.com/us/app/eva-leaf/id1050429958Just be careful of the 'demo' 40kW Leafs. A lot of them are Japanese imports, unless it is Nissan Australia selling them directly. When we imported our 30kWh Leaf, I mentioned those sub-$50k ones to the importer, and he said they're all Japanese imports. I did think it was strange that some had 8000+ km. Which is fine, but just be aware of the restrictions of a non Aus-delivered Leaf: - ZERO warranty from Nissan Australia. The warranty that comes with the car from the used-car Dealer "isn't worth paper it is written on" (the importer's words, since he's had experience getting work approved under these 3rd-party warranties). - Nissan Connect App will never work over here because of the Japanese SIM Card. - Radio can be made to work, but it's not great. Frequencies are shifted, and reception is poor, since Japan has a different frequency range. - Various Menus are all in Japanese, and Satnav won't work unless it it converted. I'm not sure how bad it is on newer Leafs (what can be converted), but even after we spent almost $800 getting our 2015 Leaf converted to English, we still have some menus in Japanese and Satnav will never work. I have an LELink OBD Dongle and it is Bluetooth. I'll let those with newer Leafs confirm Nissan Connect, and if it works. It should have it. Even our 2015 has it (doesn't work of course, since it is a JDM Import). And even 2012 Aus Delivered cars had that remote heating/cooling functionality through CarWings (what the App was called back them). Although it is extremely buggy, from what I've read in the CarWings thread. It isn't working more often than it is.
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Post by weareallbrown on Feb 9, 2020 22:13:13 GMT 11
Thank You tomkauf for your advice. I had been looking at 40kw leafs from importers and could get an X model registered with just steel wheels and the 3kw lesser charger (you can get the 6Kw charger but its a factory option in Japan) for $37,000.00. I have checked the Australian ones one is at a Nissan Dealer in Aspley and one in Ipswich I think and if I get good trade in could get it for $40,000 on the road. So Bluetooth is the best for Dongles and your right about the bugginess of Carwings and Nissan connect from overseas reports. apps.apple.com/us/app/my-leaf-for-nissan-ev/id1436701776 This APP claims its an Alternative to Nissan Connect but only for models to May 2019 which seems strange.
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Post by tomkauf on Feb 10, 2020 0:21:28 GMT 11
No problem. Those prices sound really good. Not bad at all compared to high $50k. And yeah, we're also stuck with a 3kW charger. It's enough for us, but it's definitely not fast. Then again we only have a 30kWh battery, so charging 40kWh at 3kW would be even worse (although the daily usage wouldn't be any higher). That app sounds interesting. I always assumed it was the connection or Nissan Servers that were the problem. But if it's the App itself, a 3rd-party one would be a good solution.
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chiara
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 2
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Post by chiara on May 14, 2020 20:57:53 GMT 11
Hi, I am in the market to buy an EV, with Leaf and Ioniq the prime contenders. Today at my local Nissan dealership, in response to a direct question, I was told that the Leaf 2019 model has active (ie liquid) battery cooling. They even purported to show me the pipes that carry heated water into the body of the car for interior heating purposes, as a secondary function to cooling the battery. I was further informed, when I pressed, that the Leaf battery has always been liquid-cooled, not air cooled. I am dubious about this information, not least because I didn't think water was used as a coolant in this capacity. None of it matches what I find by googling (#rapidgate). Does anyone on here know for sure one way or the other how the Leaf 2019 battery is cooled (and does it even matter that much either way)?
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Post by brunohill on May 15, 2020 0:50:54 GMT 11
Hi, I am in the market to buy an EV, with Leaf and Ioniq the prime contenders. Today at my local Nissan dealership, in response to a direct question, I was told that the Leaf 2019 model has active (ie liquid) battery cooling. They even purported to show me the pipes that carry heated water into the body of the car for interior heating purposes, as a secondary function to cooling the battery. I was further informed, when I pressed, that the Leaf battery has always been liquid-cooled, not air cooled. I am dubious about this information, not least because I didn't think water was used as a coolant in this capacity. None of it matches what I find by googling (#rapidgate). Does anyone on here know for sure one way or the other how the Leaf 2019 battery is cooled (and does it even matter that much either way)? If you live in Tasmania, it probably doesn't matter. All of the LEAF batteries are radiation cooled. I would like to see you get those claims in writing.
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Post by Feng on May 15, 2020 8:06:47 GMT 11
Yeah either the salesman doesn't know what they're talking about or they were trying to pull a fast one over you. It would be huge news if Nissan released a liquid cooled battery pack for the Leaf.
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Post by tomkauf on May 15, 2020 11:51:31 GMT 11
Hi, I am in the market to buy an EV, with Leaf and Ioniq the prime contenders. Today at my local Nissan dealership, in response to a direct question, I was told that the Leaf 2019 model has active (ie liquid) battery cooling. They even purported to show me the pipes that carry heated water into the body of the car for interior heating purposes, as a secondary function to cooling the battery. I was further informed, when I pressed, that the Leaf battery has always been liquid-cooled, not air cooled. I am dubious about this information, not least because I didn't think water was used as a coolant in this capacity. None of it matches what I find by googling (#rapidgate). Does anyone on here know for sure one way or the other how the Leaf 2019 battery is cooled (and does it even matter that much either way)? Wow, that's a straight up lie! I can understand salesmen not knowing a lot about the subject, but to show you random pipes to fool you is deceitful. Wouldn't those pipes be internal to the battery pack, not just running eg. along the bottom. As you said, a quick google search will show you that no Leaf has ever had liquid cooling. Not even the biggest battery 62kWh Leaf+ has it. Only conditioned air is used on some. In the past it has unfortunately been a big problem for them, in regards to Battery Degradation. Not so much in colder climates though. Almost every other EV manufacturer around the world has it. Even other 'affordable' models from Hyundai, Kia, Renault, not just Tesla. So the fact that Nissan refuse to do liquid cooling is stupid in my opinion (just cost cutting at the expense of long-term battery life, or to sell the next model). But to lie about it is even worse.
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Post by Feng on May 15, 2020 12:27:36 GMT 11
Almost every other EV manufacturer around the world has it. Even other 'affordable' models from Hyundai, Kia, Renault, not just Tesla. Not to get too far off topic, did you hear the Lexus UX300e doesn't have liquid cooling? Only ducted cooling from the car's A/C, which is still a step up from the Leaf. They warrant 70% capacity over 10 years and 1,000,000km with this setup. Brave!
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Post by tomkauf on May 15, 2020 12:41:45 GMT 11
Not to get too far off topic, did you hear the Lexus UX300e doesn't have liquid cooling? Only ducted cooling from the car's A/C, which is still a step up from the Leaf. They warrant 70% capacity over 10 years and 1,000,000km with this setup. Brave! No I hadn't even heard about a Lexus EV. Which is surprising, because I listen to several EV podcasts. Maybe they're too US/Eurooe based, and talk about Hummer EVs, VM IDs etc. Or because I'm a week behind with all the latest news. Wow, that's a fantastic warranty. Almost too good to be true. But if anyone can do reliability, it's Lexus. Surprising though that they are so confident of their Battery technology. Because Toyota/Lexus have been totally anti BEVs, with press releases saying that Hybrids and eventually their work on Hydrogen are the future. If they don't have the cooling spot-on, I can foresee battery replacements under warranty in hot climates. But if it gets people into EVs, I support that as a good start.
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Post by Feng on May 15, 2020 13:19:53 GMT 11
Yeah I hate their self-charging hybrid marketing too. Then there was this piece from a few years ago which they ultimately pulled: vimeo.com/203038156 - it put me off Lexus after that, at least their marketing team. I'm sure the cars are solid.
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Post by tomkauf on May 15, 2020 14:07:27 GMT 11
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chiara
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 2
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Post by chiara on May 15, 2020 14:17:34 GMT 11
Thank you all for the candid commentary, much appreciated. Whilst I profoundly disapprove of the sales tactics and will not buy from that particular dealership, I do like the e-pedal and the Leaf's drive feel. I live in Victoria and range all over the state for work. The car will be doing long distances (Gippsland, NSW border a few times a year) and will need rapid charging from time to time, possibly consecutive rapid charges. Does anyone have a sense of whether the new Leaf is up for that kind of treatment, given its suboptimal battery cooling technology?
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Post by tomkauf on May 15, 2020 15:10:33 GMT 11
Hi chiara, google Rapidgate. Consecutive fast/rapid charging is throttled on the newer Leafs. Which is actually a good thing. Nissan is looking at battery temperature and slows charging to look after the battery. I actually thought that all the negative media about it at the time was counterproductive for battery health. Because apparently Nissan then released a 'software fix' for it. Maybe someone else knows more info about this reprogramming that Nissan did.
I think the Leaf will be a good choice. It's a nice car, and the range on them these days is very usable. Highway kms are going to give you less range. You might already know that an EV is the opposite to an internal combustion car in that regard. EV city driving will give lower consumption, but that shouldn't deter you from doing long trips in an EV.
Have you looked at 'A Better Route Planner' (either via the website or App)? It's like Google Maps, but takes into account charging stops, or what battery percentage you'll reach your destination with. I'd suggest plugging in the vehicle type and battery size, and some of the trips you'll do with it. You'll then get a good idea if you'll have to stop and charge (and for how long). Or if charging at home/work will be enough, which would be ideal.
In Australia, we don't have a lot of EV options unfortunately. No Renault Zoe, no e-Golf... Hyundai are definitely a great option though, if you can find an Ioniq etc for sale. I don't know enough about them, but reviews have been very good. Hopefully their battery degradation will be low. For maximum range and battery longevity, Tesla is obviously king. But even the Model 3 is $$s.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 20:00:17 GMT 11
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Post by coulomb on May 15, 2020 23:01:25 GMT 11
Thanks for the link. Some of the comments were.... special. It seems a bit underwhelming to me, for what it's likely to cost. 54.3 kWh battery, 150 kW motor, FWD only (how is that a cross-over?), air cooled... It had better be luxurious.
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Post by JasonG on Jun 27, 2020 14:01:35 GMT 11
I wanted to ask if any owners of the 40kw Australian delivered (UK Built) Leaf have looked at the Firmware number for the BMS. After many complaints in Europe they updated the Firmware so you could rapid charge more times without a big loss in recharge speeds and it gave 4% more battery size. The Firmware Number to look for is 5SH2C. The Old BMS firmware number has an A where the C is. Also when you buy the Leaf do you just get a Type2 to Type2 Cable? If that is so aren't they selling you a car you can't charge unless you spent big money on a Wall Charger....perhaps Nissan should fit one as part of the sale. Hi wearerealbrown, we have just bought a new Leaf (it's fantastic and i would agree with all the good comments so far) and it came with a Type2 to Type2 cable only (Adelaide dealer). We also bought a 10 amp cable for charging in the garage at home, and i will try and limit it to 80% max as suggested. Because most of the Charging stations around here south of Adelaide are Type 1 we bought a 1-2 adapter as well. Used it successfully at the McLaren Vale visitor centre (free). I'm interested in the BMS Firmware number that you mention - where do I find it? Also I'm having trouble setting the cruise control. Despite following the manual it seems to only work as a speed limiter. Is there some trick to this or is it a warranty problem?
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Post by Ros on Nov 14, 2020 18:33:42 GMT 11
I wanted to ask if any owners of the 40kw Australian delivered (UK Built) Leaf have looked at the Firmware number for the BMS. After many complaints in Europe they updated the Firmware so you could rapid charge more times without a big loss in recharge speeds and it gave 4% more battery size. The Firmware Number to look for is 5SH2C. The Old BMS firmware number has an A where the C is. Also when you buy the Leaf do you just get a Type2 to Type2 Cable? If that is so aren't they selling you a car you can't charge unless you spent big money on a Wall Charger....perhaps Nissan should fit one as part of the sale. Hi wearerealbrown, we have just bought a new Leaf (it's fantastic and i would agree with all the good comments so far) and it came with a Type2 to Type2 cable only (Adelaide dealer). We also bought a 10 amp cable for charging in the garage at home, and i will try and limit it to 80% max as suggested. Because most of the Charging stations around here south of Adelaide are Type 1 we bought a 1-2 adapter as well. Used it successfully at the McLaren Vale visitor centre (free). I'm interested in the BMS Firmware number that you mention - where do I find it? Also I'm having trouble setting the cruise control. Despite following the manual it seems to only work as a speed limiter. Is there some trick to this or is it a warranty problem? Hi Jason We also live south of Adelaide and are looking at buying a Leaf, so I’m very interested to hear that you have one nearby. Can you give an update on your experience so far? Thanks Ros
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jasong
EV Tyre Kicker
Posts: 1
LEAF OWNER?: Yes
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Post by jasong on Dec 7, 2020 16:06:06 GMT 11
Hi Ros,
My apologies for a late reply, I missed your post as I didn't get a reply for a while. Anyway, we're finding the Leaf even more exciting to drive - the smooth gearless and powerful acceleration is the best! My wife is still getting used to all the the electronica, but I have figured out the Cruise Control - it does have normal as well as Speed limiting, but also a mode with an adjustable safe stopping/distance to car in front as well. The safety features are quite amazing - it even told me off for being a bit inattentive once ("Do you need a Coffee")! It won't steer you back into your lane like some rivals but does apply brakes to the opposite side wheels if you deviate too much, after giving the warnings as mentioned above. We think that this is actually safer. One problem for the poor dog. If we are going to leave her in the car we have to remember to switch off the interior movement sensor or she sets off the alarm - looks very chastened when we dash back! This isn't mentioned in the manual as far as I can see, so beware. There may be a way to disable it permanently but I haven't been able to find it yet. We would be happy to answer more questions, even show the car off to you if you like. Good luck anyway Jason
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